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Royal, Aargh I know you 2 have been involved with this very same discussion going on how many years? Think anything will change?
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The Valley is on the wrong side of its best days. The ship has sailed, the dream is dead. There are too many reasons for this, but a big one is money. Valley schools don't want to spend what it takes to be continually successful.
Creighton and Wichita State spent real money, Southern Illinois tried to for a while. The rest of the schools are happy and comfortable playing the six year, mid major cycle. With Creighton leaving and Southern going broke trying, that leaves Wichita State. The good news for Shocker fans is you should dominate this conference from now until you get out. The bad news is that your most compelling home game this year was Indiana State.
Wichita State is becoming a household name in sports circles, unfortunately, the Shockers are carrying around the Valley stigma. If we could only go back to 2006, have every school buy in, and reverse what has been a devastating trend line.There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.Comment
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I think the league will be better over the next couple of years, but with the emergence of the MWC, A-10 and creation of the AAC, there's just no way the stars align they way they did around 2006.Originally posted by Mr. Obvious View Post
While a couple of power-conferences aren't as good as they once were, we're still looking up at:
Big 12
Big 10
ACC
SEC
Pac-12
Big East
AAC
A10
MWC
That's NINE conferences that are better at the top, gobbling up at-large bids before a Valley school not named Wichita State gets a look. The best the Valley can hope for is to get ahead of the WCC and have a year or two where they are even or better than the A10 and/or MWC. I really think our absolute ceiling is 8th-best conference (by RPI) in a freak year, 9th every few years but mostly sitting 10th. Had CU not left, maybe the MVC is one spot better.Comment
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Based on Realtimerpi.com, the Valley is currently the 12th ranked conference. The rundown of the top 15 is as follows:
1. Big 12
2. Big 10
3. Pac 10
4. Big East
5. ACC
6. A-10
7. SEC
8. AAC
9. WCC
10. MWC .5302
11. MAC .5134
12. MVC .5125
13. C-USA .4965
14. Horizon .4955
15. CAA .4915
I included the avg. RPI numbers next to the 10- 15 conferences. While the Valley is closer to 11 than 13, they are closer to being the 14th conference than in the top 10. The Valley is barely closer to the top 10 than the top 15. I bring this up because, even with Wichita State and a very good individual RPI, as a conference, the Valley is trending closer and looking more like a middle pack conference than a top third conference. As the Valley declined over the past few years, youcould hang your hat on Top 10, or just outside of top ten, but looks like a top 10 conference. Not any more, the Valley, even with Wichita State doing everything they can to try and create a rising tide for all boats, the Valley has regressed to a ho hum, mid level conference.There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.Comment
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MVC Recipe for Success:
Gregg Marshall staying at WSU for the rest of his career
7 Marshall clones to distribute among the struggling/mediocre programs
Lansing stays at ISUb
Hinson stays at SIU (cause come on, we need some comedy in our lives)Comment
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I think most of the coaches in the MVC are adequate and can get the job done with adequate support. I don't think we will ever consistently be a 5-6 rated conference. Maybe once in a blue moon. But I think it is possible for the Valley to be a consistent 7-9 rated conference but I do not think it is likely for that to happen because I'm just not convinced the will and desire is there at most of the other Valley programs (including their fan bases).
I do agree with @RoyalShock: and @Aargh: that this probably would require a real hard look at the cost-benefits of the 5 schools (UNI, INS, ILS, MSU and SIU) who have FCS football programs and whether or not the Valley would be better off becoming a totally basketball-first conference ala the new Big East.Comment
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The football schools will never shift their focus from football to basketball. The dream of moving from 1-AA to 1-A looms too large. For most, if not all, that jump won't ever happen. But the dream lives.
Look no further than UNI's message board. Men's basketball sits below football, football recruiting and of all things, football tailgaiting.
As football costs increase, and many Valley schools struggle to simply keep spending at current levels, basketball will continue to suffer.
Look on the bright side, the MVFC is one tough football conference that nobody follows.There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.Comment
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Agreed. That's while I think it's possible for the MVC to be a consistent 7-9 rated basketball conference I doubt it will actually happen. That leaves Wichita State little choice but to try to find a new home.Originally posted by MoValley John View PostComment
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I will finish this thing right here, the Valley peaked in the mid 2000's. The league was tough as nails and fun to watch. Since then, the football conference changed its name back to Missouri Valley. While still technically a different League, the separation has become grayer every year. And since the name change, the football conference has morphed from a good conference with a few great teams to a great conference with top level teams. Meanwhile, the basketball conference has done just the opposite, but more dramatically. Basketball has gone from a great conference with a few top level teams, to a mediocre conference with only one top level team.
When and if football is ever officially rolled back into the Valley, the basketball portion of the league will officially be dead.There are three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city; and never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, and everything else is cream cheese.Comment
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The truth in the responses in this thread just make me sad.Comment
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What a revolting predicament to be in. We need to get out of Dodge if it is the last thing we ever do. But then, I look around, and think, well maybe things aren’t quite as bad as they seem.
After all:
a, We are the only Div 1 school in the whole universe (that we know of) that is undefeated.
b. We are the #2 ranked (should be #1) team in the nation.
c. We have a great coach and he seems most happy where he is.
d. Our young kids are GREAT and play a very exciting brand of BB.
e. We are going to the NCAA tournament again this year no matter what.
f. And we should be the #1 ranked team in whichever Regional we go to.
Obviously a better conference would nice, but I could live very nicely with this for the next 10 years or so. What say you?Comment
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Throughout college basketball history, there have been numerous teams from so-so conferences who have risen to the top. The ones who used that success to upgrade conferences have typically been the ones who stayed at least relevant over the long haul (UNLV, Georgetown, Memphis, etc.) despite occasional downturns, versus those who stayed put and withered once they hit a rough patch (San Francisco, etc.). A strong conference provides a safety net by providing additional revenue and exposure for recruiting- you aren't building from scratch every time you crash and burn, and you have the money to chase high-level candidates. Not to mention the well-founded fear that the NCAA may be splitting basketball into different levels soon, a la football....in which case we can all guess what side they will leave the MVC on.
Things are great now. But to maximize our long term potential, we gotta get out.Comment
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Independent -----> Big East
I'm sure there are better examples but I'm shooting from the hip and will let someone else waste a half hour on sports-reference.com/cbb if they want. The examples of programs who did nothing and fell off the map are a little easier to come up with: NYU, Western Kentucky, Bradley, UTEP, etc.Comment
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