Random Thoughts

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I understand that we are playing what amounts to a weak schedule. Not denying or arguing that point. My issue is that we had very little control over that weak schedule. As you said, we couldn't find many top teams to schedule us home and home. But we had 5 games that we essentially got control over this year. ESU was scheduled last minute when no one would play us in Dallas. WKU is traditionally a tourney team. SLU is #10 and has lost only two games this year. Alabama was supposed to be better than they are. NCCU actually received a vote for the Top 25 this week and is leading the MEAC conference. The rest of our weak schedule comes from awful Valley teams, return contracts with ORU, Tulsa, Tennessee, and Davidson, and then the crapfest that became the CBE. Hard to have a strong schedule when you only get to schedule 5 of your 31 regular season games. Why should we be punished and mocked for something we have no control over?

WSU should not be mocked for their schedule. I agree with that 100%.

However, WSU’s attempt to schedule tough games is part of the politics of scheduling. The “effort” put out by the coaching staff really has nothing to do with quality of the team on the floor. Even when the committee apparently looks at “intent” in their selection process, it is mostly in an effort to reward and encourage teams to “schedule up”. From a pure “how good is Team A vs Team B” perspective, the intent of each team’s schedulers is really irrelevant to the conversation.

The problem is not people who look at WSU’s record and say “I need to adjust for the fact that they played a somewhat easy schedule.” The problem is people who take a valid factor like SOS and over-adjust for it. I think this is what most of the annoying people in the national media are doing. Taking a valid factor and over-using it to the point that it becomes almost the only factor in their analysis.

[ciaomichael]

In looking at the rankings this week, I couldn't help but notice how many former Missouri Valley Conference members are rated highly:

Wichita State
Louisville
Cincinnati
St. Louis
Creighton
Memphis

True, the current conference (ex WSU) isn't very great, but over the years the MVC has had some nice basketball programs.

[im4wsu]

In looking at the rankings this week, I couldn't help but notice how many former Missouri Valley Conference members are rated highly:

Wichita State
Louisville
Cincinnati
St. Louis
Creighton
Memphis

True, the current conference (ex WSU) isn't very great, but over the years the MVC has had some nice basketball programs.

Kansas
Kansas state
Oklahoma
Oklahoma state
Iowa
Iowa state
Houston
Tulsa

Just to mention a few others

[MadaboutWu]

To get this thread back off topic I had a couple of hypothetical questions watching Turgeon's Maryland play Cuse.

Suppose MT was still our coach (of his own choosing not b/c of lack of ability to jump), given the state of the program when he left andthe benefit of stability, how many trips do you think we make to the NCAA in the 7 total years including this one? What is our best seed/best performance? Don't want to open up Turgeon bashing--just wondering what people think.

[pie n eye]

Who would you rather vote for, a giant douche or a turd sandwich?

[WillieJeffJeffries]

WSU v #1 Seed, the weak schedule and 2013 FF team v 2014 Shox........

First let me say that if WSU goes 34-0 they do deserve one of the four #1 seeds. Even tho the schedule has been weak, WSU is one of the best six or seven teams in the country and capable of winning it all. To go undefeated even with a semi weak schedule deserves a #1.

I know that Gottleib catches hell here but I think he does bring up some valid points. Last year WSU was two different teams, with RB...FF team and w/o RB.....8 loss team. In last years MVC CG v ScuM Baker, Early and FVV came off the bench......good bench. I do think FVV is a solid pg but he doesnt have a FVV type coming off the bench as a back up. In the FF run last year Malcolm played awesome but when he needed a blow the drop off to FVV was minimal. This year we dont have that, Bowels maybe was going to be that guy. So when DG talks about WSU having a lack of quality depth, I think depth at gaurd would be his concern. If WSU plays a team like LVille and FVV and RB get in early foul trouble...game over.

[pie n eye]

In that case, Cotton would just step up like he always does. BAMF.

[WillieJeffJeffries]

Against better teams being a BAMF only goes so far....lol'

its a concern

[The Mad Hatter]

WSU v #1 Seed, the weak schedule and 2013 FF team v 2014 Shox........

First let me say that if WSU goes 34-0 they do deserve one of the four #1 seeds. Even tho the schedule has been weak, WSU is one of the best six or seven teams in the country and capable of winning it all. To go undefeated even with a semi weak schedule deserves a #1.

I know that Gottleib catches hell here but I think he does bring up some valid points. Last year WSU was two different teams, with RB...FF team and w/o RB.....8 loss team. In last years MVC CG v ScuM Baker, Early and FVV came off the bench......good bench. I do think FVV is a solid pg but he doesnt have a FVV type coming off the bench as a back up. In the FF run last year Malcolm played awesome but when he needed a blow the drop off to FVV was minimal. This year we dont have that, Bowels maybe was going to be that guy. So when DG talks about WSU having a lack of quality depth, I think depth at gaurd would be his concern. If WSU plays a team like LVille and FVV and RB get in early foul trouble...game over.

You might check the depth of the other top 5 teams in the country. We run 9 deep in double figure minutes, Florida runs 9 deep, KU runs 8 deep, Arizona runs 7 deep, Syracuse runs 7 deep.

Specifically at point guard and shooting guard:

Kansas - PG Nadir Tharpe plays 30.3 mpg, SG Wayne Selden Jr. plays 28.9 mpg (59.2 combined)
Wichita State - PG Fred Van Vleet plays 31.9 mpg, SG Ron Baker plays 29.7 mpg (61.6 combined)
Florida - PG Scottie Wilbekin plays 34.0 mpg, SG Michael Frazier II plays 29.9 mpg (63.9 combined)
Arizona - PG T.J. McConnell plays 31.9 mpg, SG Nick Johnson plays 32.5 mpg (64.4 combined)
Syracuse - PG Tyler Ennis plays 35.0 mpg, SG Trevor Cooney plays 32.1 mpg (67.1 combined)

In other words, among top 5 teams, only KU leans less heavily on its starting guards than WSU. Ennis just played all 40 minutes against Maryland. Florida had only 1 guard seen action off the bench against Ole Miss. Maybe guard depth is a failing of this Shocker team, but no more so than the rest of the top 5, yet that hardly seems to be held against any of those teams.

[Kung Wu]

While I agree, Drake is a bad comparison.

I really feel for VanDeest. He showed a lot of promise as an underclassman and just couldn't catch a break with his health.

I was surprised at how tubby he looked.

[Kung Wu]

The thread title "Poll Watch (2013-2014 edition)" still bothers me. I am wary every time I open that thread.

LMAO. This post needs more air time.

[Kung Wu]

I do think FVV is a solid pg but he doesnt have a FVV type coming off the bench as a back up.

1) FVV is much more than "a solid pg". He's a straight up baller. Maybe the best PG in the country.

2) True, we don't have an FVV coming off the bench to back up FVV, but Ron Baker has improved dramatically at the point in the last 4 or 5 games. Yes, he's still able to get pressed into making a mistake, but he's leaps and bounds from where he was at the beginning of the season. And certainly as serviceable as most other elite team's backup PG. In fact, in a couple recent games there were stretches where we were more productive with Ron running the point than with FVV. That was never the case early in the season.

3) True, if FVV and Baker are in early foul trouble for extended periods of the game, our production will probably decrease dramatically. The upside to that is that so will the other team's though, because our defense will have elevated (Cotton running the point means we have a lot of defense players out there slowing the game down, which will buy us time). I guess it just depends on how long that foul trouble stretch is.

[ShockerPrez]

The way I see it, syracuse only had to get up against a crappy team a few times in conference and couldn't even accomplish that!

[WillieJeffJeffries]

1) FVV is much more than "a solid pg". He's a straight up baller. Maybe the best PG in the country.

2) True, we don't have an FVV coming off the bench to back up FVV, but Ron Baker has improved dramatically at the point in the last 4 or 5 games. Yes, he's still able to get pressed into making a mistake, but he's leaps and bounds from where he was at the beginning of the season. And certainly as serviceable as most other elite team's backup PG. In fact, in a couple recent games there were stretches where we were more productive with Ron running the point than with FVV. That was never the case early in the season.

3) True, if FVV and Baker are in early foul trouble for extended periods of the game, our production will probably decrease dramatically. The upside to that is that so will the other team's though, because our defense will have elevated (Cotton running the point means we have a lot of defense players out there slowing the game down, which will buy us time). I guess it just depends on how long that foul trouble stretch is.

No on FVV being best PG in the country, Staton kid out of WV for one is better. FVV is very good...just not the best...no shame in that......... As far as minutes at the guard position go, WSU's schedule and avg margin of victory provides more opportunity for reserves to play....doesnt mean they are quality minutes. The four main reserves are Wiggins-Wing, the 2 Bigs, and Wessel-Wing....Last year we had Armstead, VV, and D Williams at the point. Baker is more valuable at the 2, dispite the pockets of increased productivity you site with RB at the point.

[Kung Wu]

No on FVV being best PG in the country, Staton kid out of WV for one is better. FVV is very good...just not the best...no shame in that......... As far as minutes at the guard position go, WSU's schedule and avg margin of victory provides more opportunity for reserves to play....doesnt mean they are quality minutes. The four main reserves are Wiggins-Wing, the 2 Bigs, and Wessel-Wing....Last year we had Armstead, VV, and D Williams at the point. Baker is more valuable at the 2, dispite the pockets of increased productivity you site with RB at the point.

Will you give me top 3 for FVV?

Yeah we were deep last year, no doubt about it. Yes Baker is better at the 2, no doubt about it. But for small spells his PG play has improved and Cotton makes a salty 2 man during that time frame. If Wessel can start strokin' look out!