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Is Wichita State a championship caliber team?

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  • Is Wichita State a championship caliber team?

    It is around the time where the top teams generally start to separate themselves and title favorites start to emerge. I think the standard reaction across the country would be skeptical, and the standard reaction on this board would probably be positive. But there are objective measures to see if a team is really a title contender.

    The first is simple. Going back to 2003, every champion finished the year with a top 20 ranking in both offense and defense (going by KenPom, which does not have data past 2003). This year the following teams are top 20 in both categories:

    Arizona (7, 3)
    Syracuse (6, 13)
    Iowa (5, 19)
    Michigan State (18, 17)

    However, KenPom has enough variance that a team that is close to a balanced top rating could easily get up to top 20 in both categories. Here are the teams that are top 20 in one category and close in another:

    Louisville (22, 8)
    Wichita State (23, 10)
    Kansas (8, 28)
    Florida (29, 9)
    Pittsburgh (10, 23)
    Villanova (11, 26)
    Kentucky (9, 31)
    Oklahoma State (20, 34)
    Iowa State (28, 20)

    The next thing most champions do is shoot the 3. The mark is 37%. Going back to 2003 again, only Connecticut and Syracuse have won the championship shooting lower than 37%. Connecticut won shooting just 32.9%, and Syracuse shot just 34.4%. The reasoning behind the 3PT shooting is that a team that cannot shoot 3s well is vulnerable to an upset to a team that can pull a Creighton and shoot out of their minds for one game (though Creightons tend not to be able to win multiple games do to the first factor). Teams need to be consistent and strong against upsets to win six in a row. The following are the 3PT% marks for each team discussed above:

    Qualify:
    Michigan State - 38.6%
    Iowa - 37.7%
    Louisville - 37.5%
    Oklahoma State - 37.5%

    Close:
    Arizona - 36.2%
    Florida - 35.8%
    Kansas - 35.5%
    Pittsburgh - 35.3%
    Syracuse - 35.0%
    Iowa State - 35.0%

    Far:
    Villanova - 34.8%
    Wichita State - 32.6%
    Kentucky - 31.5%

    The next category we'll look at is rebounding, specifically offensive rebounding. While champions have had varying degrees of success on the offensive boards, only Florida in 2006 won it all with an offensive rebounding rate of less than 37%. Again consistency is important, and offensive rebounds lower the margin of error and make misses less of a problem. Here are the offensive rebounding percentages of the teams in question:

    Qualify:
    Kentucky - 44.1%
    Arizona - 40.6%
    Syracuse - 39.7%
    Iowa - 38.6%
    Pittsburgh - 38.5%
    Louisville - 38.0%

    Close:
    Florida - 36.9%
    Kansas - 36.7%
    Wichita State - 35.4%
    Villanova - 34.7%

    Far:
    Michigan State - 32.7%
    Oklahoma State - 30.4%
    Iowa State - 26.8%

    The next offensive must is a strong frountcourt scorer (over 6'8", 12+ PPG). Consistency again, as frontcourt scoring tends to be more reliable than backcourt scoring simply because 3s are the most random aspect of basketball. I'm not going to list the top frontcourt scorer for each school, but I will list the teams that qualify:

    Arizona
    Wichita State
    Kansas
    Syracuse
    Kentucky
    Louisville
    Iowa
    Pittsburgh

    The final offensive variable is a lack of reliance on any one single scorer. Only Kemba Walker for Connecticut, Russ Smith for Louisville, and Carmelo Anthony for Syracuse won a title using 30% or more of their teams possessions. While some teams are close to reaching that mark, here are the teams that qualify:

    Arizona
    Syracuse
    Iowa
    Michigan State
    Pittsburgh
    Villanova
    Kentucky
    Oklahoma State
    Iowa State
    Wichita State
    Florida
    Kansas

    Usually title teams have three players averaging over 10 PPG, often four. But I won't qualify that for time reasons. Instead, I'll move onto the other side of the game and talk about defense. The most important stat for a team looking to win six in a row and get a title is consistently defending inside the arc. Teams need to make sure that they maximize their margin of error if they want to win it all, and easy layups are never going to work well with that. The mark is 45%. Here are the stats for that:

    Qualify:
    Arizona - 40.2%
    Florida - 41.2%
    Michigan State - 41.5%
    Kentucky - 42.0%
    Oklahoma State - 42.7%
    Louisville - 43.2%
    Villanova - 43.2%
    Kansas - 43.3%
    Iowa - 43.5%
    Iowa State - 44.5%
    Pittsburgh - 44.5%
    Wichita State -44.8%

    Close:
    Syracuse - 46.7%

    Next up, free throws. This goes back to the margin of error argument. Letting opponents keep the score close with FTs means that the upset minded team needs less 3s and less randomness to win. The mark is 31%, but few teams have made that this year so I'll accept higher. Here are your numbers:

    Qualifying:
    Iowa State - 26.4%
    Arizona - 32.1%
    Iowa - 32.4%
    Pittsburgh - 33.2%
    Florida - 33.3%

    Close:
    Kentucky - 35.1%
    Michigan State - 35.3%
    Syracuse - 35.3%
    Wichita State - 37.6%

    Far:
    Villanova - 39.1%
    Louisville - 39.3%
    Oklahoma State - 39.9%
    Kansas - 45.0%

    There are a few other factors. Champion winning teams need to win their conference, usually have a coach that has won at least at a Sweet 16 before, and have an All-America player on their roster. Most schools meet all the requirements, but I'll note the exceptions. The Iowa schools miss the coaching mark of a Sweet 16, and the conference champion mark right now with Michigan leading (same applies to Michigan State). Villanova, Pittsburgh, and the Iowa schools again miss the mark of an All-American player (going by the midseason awards). Kentucky and Florida are 50/50 on winning the SEC, and I'll put Syracuse as the favorite in the ACC.

    Now we tally up the marks. I'll give 2 points for successfully qualifying for a criteria, 1 point for coming close. Anything without a solid stat is 2 or 0. Total, we come to:

    Arizona - 19
    Syracuse - 16
    Wichita State - 16
    Michigan State - 16
    Kentucky - 16
    Louisville - 15
    Kansas - 14
    Florida - 14Pittsburgh - 14
    Villanova - 11
    Oklahoma State - 11
    Iowa State - 10

    It should be no surprise that the undefeated teams have the marks of consistency that a title favorite usually has. Kentucky is surprising. But what this shows is that we do, in fact, have a shot at a title if we follow in the footsteps of past champions. The main black mark on our record is our 3PT shooting, but it is worth noting that what matters is what you do in the tournament. Connecticut won a title with lousy seasonal averages by starting the tournament hot, and we did something similar last year to get to a Final Four. One could speculate that our 3PT shooting could go up significantly if Tekele Cotton could regain his form or if we simply let Baker and Van Vleet take a much larger portion of those shots.

    TL;DR: Yes, yes we are. No one is a perfect match for what historically makes a title team, but we are close on almost all accounts. I feel fairly confident with that list because it seems to confirm what I'd suspect: Kansas and Kentucky have the talent to compete, Arizona and Syracuse are #1 and #2, and the bottom three are pretenders right now.

  • #2
    Wow, very nice. Thanks for taking the time to make this post! I think based on the numbers our biggest area to improve on is our 3pt shooting. Cle is picking it up and Ron is getting back to form after the ankle injury. If Nick could get his touch back I will feel very confident going into the tournament. I have given up on Even for this season, his shot looks like Charles Barkley's golf stroke.
    “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
    -Sun Tzu, The Art of War

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    • #3
      wow.......this is stunning in it's detail.....thanks, and hope you are not working on this at work!:)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by kochHead View Post
        Wow, very nice. Thanks for taking the time to make this post! I think based on the numbers our biggest area to improve on is our 3pt shooting. Cle is picking it up and Ron is getting back to form after the ankle injury. If Nick could get his touch back I will feel very confident going into the tournament. I have given up on Even for this season, his shot looks like Charles Barkley's golf stroke.
        Cotton has also sucked from three this year from a statistical stand point. We need Nick and Tekele to start hitting.
        Livin the dream

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        • #5
          This thread has serious JH4P potential.
          Deuces Valley.
          ... No really, deuces.
          ________________
          "Enjoy the ride."

          - a smart man

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          • #6
            at the end of the day you need some bounces in the tourney, some good teams to get knocked off...if your in the NCAA tourney I see that as a sign of a title contender...you cant contend unless your in the tourney...so therefore you are a contender...were Butler, VCU and George Mason and us last year perfectly formed into the categories above...probably not...but they all had a chance to contend didnt they ?? If your in...you have a chance to win...just my two cents!! #watchus Contend and #GOSHOX

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            • #7
              Originally posted by choida View Post
              at the end of the day you need some bounces in the tourney, some good teams to get knocked off...if your in the NCAA tourney I see that as a sign of a title contender...you cant contend unless your in the tourney...so therefore you are a contender...were Butler, VCU and George Mason and us last year perfectly formed into the categories above...probably not...but they all had a chance to contend didnt they ?? If your in...you have a chance to win...just my two cents!! #watchus Contend and #GOSHOX
              We didn't need any higher ranked seeds to fall before us last year. Yes, K-State fell, but I'd like to believe we could have beat them.

              We beat the #1 and #2 seeds in our region last year straight up. No Gimmick defense, no amazingly hot shooting (yes late game Gonzaga stretch was crazy), we just beat them.
              The mountains are calling, and I must go.

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              • #8
                Just watched some of Katz Korner on ESPNU over my lunch hour. Adrian Branch was loving us while Dino Gaudio was all over the place. Saying we in no way deserve credit and then reverted back to us deserving a #1 seed for certain. Pick a side dude.

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                • #9
                  as Ron Baker puts it...we just keep winning...and you cant blame us for that...

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                  • #10
                    This is interesting and I have a couple thoughts:

                    1) I would think taking care of the ball would be another important statistic. This is an area I feel we've dramatically improved since last year and a big factor for a our success. Did you see that as an area that factored into the championship teams (lack of turnovers)?

                    2) Regarding the need for a little luck: it's funny how when a favored heavyweight gets beat, the excuse is "so and so just got hot/lucky", or "we played our worst game of the year". When a lesser team loses (ie, Gonzaga last year), it's "we knew they were over rated all along - they just proved they didn't deserve that seed". Not saying Gonzaga was a lesser team, just making an example about the position we'll may see ourselves in this year.

                    At the end of the day, you have to be playing your best ball at the end of the year and have a game or two where you get everything going your way.

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                    • #11
                      Had Gonzaga NOT lost to Wichita St.....me thinks they would have been in the Final Four fer sure. They were good. We were just better.
                      FINAL FOURS:
                      1965, 2013

                      NCAA Tournament:
                      1964, 1965, 1976, 1981, 1985, 1987, 1988, 2006, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2021

                      NIT Champs - 1 (2011)

                      AP Poll History of Wichita St:
                      Number of Times Ranked: 157
                      Number of Times Ranked #1: 1
                      Number of Times Top 5: 32 (Most Recent - 2017)
                      Number of Times Top 10: 73 (Most Recent - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017)

                      Highest Recent AP Ranking:
                      #3 - Dec. 2017
                      #2 ~ March 2014

                      Highest Recent Coaches Poll Ranking:
                      #2 ~ March 2014
                      Finished 2013 Season #4

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by AZ Shocker View Post
                        Had Gonzaga NOT lost to Wichita St.....me thinks they would have been in the Final Four fer sure. They were good. We were just better.
                        You know, I seriously never considered that, but I think I believe that!

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                        • #13
                          Thanks for posting the comparison. I was just looking at stats like these last night in an attempt to answer the same question. Based on the Pie N Eye test I say, yes, WSU is a championship caliber team. I am glad the stats seem to back me up.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RomeoCrennel's Belly View Post
                            Just watched some of Katz Korner on ESPNU over my lunch hour. Adrian Branch was loving us while Dino Gaudio was all over the place. Saying we in no way deserve credit and then reverted back to us deserving a #1 seed for certain. Pick a side dude.
                            You took him out of context. He was asked if WSU desrved a 1 seed, and said yes. He followed that up saying he doesn't think we are a title contender because the Valley is too easy and will ultimately soften us up, comparing us to Gonzaga last year. Which whether you agree or not, is a legitmate concern. Teams are getting tested while we have our walk-ons in with 10 minutes to go. Much like, Gonzaga last year and to an extent WSU 2 years ago.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by molly jabali View Post
                              wow.......this is stunning in it's detail.....thanks, and hope you are not working on this at work!:)
                              Hey, Molly -- Don't worry. CBB_Fan is probably the boss, so he can do whatever he wants while the worker bees keep him posted.

                              Actually, CBB, I'm just curious (not that I'm asking you to look back at this same info again), but do you know how last year's WSU team stacked up? They didn't win, obviously, but they were certainly a championship caliber team on the court and could easily have had a chance to do so. I'm wondering how they fit the profile, but I am in fact at work right now and don't have time (or, if the truth be told, the inclination) to do the same analysis on last year's team.

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