Ingredients for Shockers to be Recognized as a Perennial National Powerhouse

[Shocker1976]

What ingredient(s) is/are missing from the Shocker resume that keeps them from being recognized as a major player in NCAA Men's basketball? IMO the critical missing ingredient is a National Championship coupled with membership in a nationally perceived weak basketball conference.

While the following four points are worthy of note, a National Championship is IMO a paradigm changer for the Shockers:

!. Gregg Marshall is an elite NCAA basketball coach dedicated to improving WSU;

2. Who has established and is expanding an elite five year record - (123-33);

3. Whose team won the 2011 NIT Championship;

4. Whose teams have established an improving NCAA Tournament performance (Final 32 in 2012 and Final 4 in 2013)

[ShockerPrez]

Time. We are in year 1.5. The NIT championship was nice, but if we want to be considered elite, that needs to get lower on our list of achievements. We need sweet 16s and higher over a few more years to be considered an elite level program.

We are jyst the latest Butler and VCU until we have that longevity.

[AZ Shocker]

1. - Conference affiliation IMO.
2. - 4-5 years of Top 25 rankings.
3. - 4-5 years of NCAA Tourney success.
4. - Continue to beat BCS schools.
5. - Tv, Tv....and TV!!!!!

[Dan]

agree with time, but also sustained success either through coaching longevity (like Duke) or through coaching changes (like Kansas, Kentucky). The easiest way is to to keep a good coach and let him to continue to build.

[wufan]

We weren't in the final 32 in 2012. We lost in the round of 64. Someone please correct me if I forgot an NCAA win.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

1. Annual NCAA tournament appearances with at least periodic deep runs. While the NIT was a nice stepping stone for us it garners little national respect.
2. Consistent presence in the top 25.
3. Strong program support, meaning large crowds for home games and generous financial support from donors.

While conference affiliation is a factor, I don't think it's a necessity. Gonzaga is considered by most to be a national power and it's in a conference usually no better than our dumpster fire.

If you want a blue print for what we want to accomplish, I'd look no farther than Memphis.

[shocksrbest]

We weren't in the final 32 in 2012. We lost in the round of 64. Someone please correct me if I forgot an NCAA win.

You are correct...we lost to VCU in the round of 64.

[ShockTalk]

IMHO, Butler going to the Finals in back to back years was a greater accomplishment than a National Championship for any basketball program with a budget south of $50 mill. I'm not saying I'd trade that for a NC, but it shows more staying power.

The Zags have never won a NC. They've only been to one E8 (back in 1999) out of 16 NCAAs starting in 1995. However, they did make 4 additional S16s. I believe they have that National Powerhouse label. From 1983, Xavier has been to 22 NCAAs with only 2 E8s. They also have 4 more S16s.

I think the key ingredient is HCGM and the stability he can bring to the program. Then, consistency. Year in, year out. Continuing to get better and better recruits that fit the Marshall mold. Hopefully, a better conference will come along sooner, rather than later. If not, 4-6 more years of solid teams should attract a suitor.

A National Championship would be icing on the cake for me. Sorry, but I believe winning a NC with mostly 3 star and a few 4 star players is an awful lot to ask and hang your hat on as the key missing ingredient. I believe working with those "ingredients" that you have more control over is a more sound approach and will produce the long term success Shocker Nation is longing for.

[KC Shox]

Simple....Just Win Baby

[jocoshock]

You are correct...we lost to VCU in the round of 64.

ShockerPrez and Rocky Mountain Shock have it right. It will take 5-6 more years of consistent appearances in the NCAA tourney with several S16s or better.

Both Memphis and the Zags are teams that have achieved that in my opinion.

We have a great shot at S16s or better over the next 3 years.

[ShockTalk]

1. Annual NCAA tournament appearances with at least periodic deep runs. While the NIT was a nice stepping stone for us it garners little national respect.
2. Consistent presence in the top 25.
3. Strong program support, meaning large crowds for home games and generous financial support from donors.

While conference affiliation is a factor, I don't think it's a necessity. Gonzaga is considered by most to be a national power and it's in a conference usually no better than our dumpster fire.

If you want a blue print for what we want to accomplish, I'd look no farther than Memphis.

You mean hire Calipari?!?!?!

I jest. I agree with your 3 factors, but believe holding on to Marshall is a key. Not a must, but greatly reduce the risk.

The Valley no longer holds a candle to WCC. Gonzaga, BYU, St. Mary's and this year, they may not have a team finish less than a 200 RPI. The Valley may have 3 teams worse than 250 and I'm not seeing how this is going to improve.

[wu_shizzle]

Until last year, HCGM had not won a single NCAA tournament game at Wichita State.

Another good tournament run this year, and we'll be mentioned in the same group as Butler, Gonzaga and Memphis.

Just give it a little time.

[1979Shocker]

A National Championship would be icing on the cake for me. Sorry, but I believe winning a NC with mostly 3 star and a few 4 star players is an awful lot to ask and hang your hat on as the key missing ingredient. I believe working with those "ingredients" that you have more control over is a more sound approach and will produce the long term success Shocker Nation is longing for.

Those 3- and 4-star recruits that we get as freshmen, by the time they're seniors, would be the equivalent of the 4- and 5-star recruits that the elite programs get. So even though an elite program might get a one and done 5-star recruit, we can get a four or five and done 3-star recruit that's now a 5-star their senior year. (Note that I'm making the assumption that by their senior year they are as good as a 5-star freshman.)

[Shocker1976]

Jim Boeheim's record at Syracuse is the model I think Gregg Marshall is following and I do not think Marshall has any intention or plans to leave Wichita. He has found a home very similar to Boeheim's Syracuse environs - loyal fan base, great quality of life and an excellent annual income.

Syracuse was recognized as a football powerhouse (Jim Brown and Ernie Davis) not for its basketball team when Boeheim became Head Coach in 1976. Note -

1. 38 years (time factor that many of you identified) at Syracuse Boeheim has won more than 930 games (second most behind only Mike K at Duke)

2. 11 Conference titles

3. 4 Final Fours

4. 1 National Championship

5. Syracuse was an independent first three years of Boeheim's reign; joined Big East in 1979

Importantly Boeheim has accomplished this record IMO with coaching and not 5 star McDonald High School All Americans. Carmelo Anthony is the only Calipari one and done athlete that he has coached. A significant difference between Boeheim and Marshall is that Boeheim is from up-state New York and played guard for the Orangemen, while Marshall is from South Carolina not Kansas.

IMO the Shockers have the coach they need to achieve national prominence; now we need to move to a stronger conference and sit back and enjoy the ride!

[ABC]

We need a string of Conference championships and a string of NCAA appearances.

We are well on our way. This will be the first time in Shocker history that WSU goes to the NCAA three years in a row.

WSU has been on the cusp for some time, in my view. Both the 2004 and 2005 teams could have/should have been invited to the tournament. Clearly the 2011 team should have. Obviously we've been close to the conf championship in a few of those years and inexplicably have never won in St Louis.