CBS Summer Conference Catch Up

[Shoxfan11]

I may be the only one who feels this way.. but I thought Gonzaga was the best team we beat in the tournament. It's not like they weren't a good team that wasn't prepared for the tournament - they were definitely prepared. They were a very, very good team.. but we were just a little bit better.

[MadaboutWu]

Nice post, Shocktalk. Gonzaga was quite strong and played us very tough, the toughest besides Louisville. If they got by us they could certainly have made the final four imo. They just got unlucky to hit the Shox when we were back to nearly full strength and firing on all cylinders.

On a related note, while not dominant three sweet sixteens since 1999 is not a bad record either. 3.25 would be the average for 13 appearances given complete parity. Going 0-3 in the sweet 16 is disappointing otoh.

[newshock1234]

I agree about the zags being the best team we beat, and I really felt we took their best shot as well, there was just no team in nation that was beating us on that night.

[Rlh04d]

I may be the only one who feels this way.. but I thought Gonzaga was the best team we beat in the tournament. It's not like they weren't a good team that wasn't prepared for the tournament - they were definitely prepared. They were a very, very good team.. but we were just a little bit better.

Agreed.

Honestly, I thought Gonzaga played us tougher than Louisville did. I don't think 'Zaga not being prepared holds much merit. They were prepared, well coached, and very talented ... we were simply the better team that night.

If we had a shooting night against Louisville like we did in that game, we win, and it isn't even close.

As for our losses, I think the difference is more about us than about the conference. We were simply one dimensional without a perimeter threat, which getting Baker back added.

[Rlh04d]

1. WSU
2. Indiana State
3. Bradley
4. Missouri State
5. Evansville
6. Illinois State
7. Northern Iowa
8. Loyola
9. Drake
10. SIU

Obviously I believe it's going to take something more than a little odd to knock the Shocks out of first. Likewise, I think Indiana State is a strong 2. 3-7 are all interchangeable. Literally no mixup of that order would surprise me.

I will however, be surprised if the bottom 3 are anyone other than Loyola, Drake and SIU. Unless Muller recreates his trainwreck of last year. Something not all out of the question.

I'm so confused on where to put Missouri State.

They've got some talented kids. They also lost their leading scorer and were even worse than SIU last season. Their nonconference schedule was a trainwreck.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were 3rd or 9th.

Food for thought on them: Season wide scoring differential was -7.5, worst in the conference by FAR (SIU, with the second worst, was -3.1; Drake -1; Loyola +1.3). 233 nonconference RPI was the worst in the conference, and 204 overall RPI is only better than Loyola's. 1-11 nonconference record against D1 teams (only win by 3 points in the Bracket Buster). 1-12 record against top 100 RPI, 4-6 against 150+ RPI, including 1-4 against 200+ RPI teams. 2-12 record on the road (Drake and Eastern Michigan); 1-3 on neutral sites (SIU). I could make a very good argument that Missouri State might be worse than Loyola next year. For their sake, I hope they bomb their SOS next year -- that 67 SOS did nothing for them last season (although their record against bad RPI teams means that it's tough to say they'd do much better with an easier schedule).

I still think Jacobson is the second best coach in the conference, though, so like with Marshall, I give him the benefit of the doubt in producing a top half team every season until proven otherwise.

Completely agreed with 3-7 all being interchangeable and Drake, SIU, and Loyola guaranteed for Thursday night, though. I think this is going to be a season where the top two teams have a combined four-to-five losses and there's a big gap to #3.

[Aargh]

My thought on the 3-7 dilemma is that coaching is likely to be the difference. That has me moving Bradley and UNI toward the top of that group and Illinois State toward the bottom. Throw in the player turnover at IlSU, the inability of Muller to use the talent he had last year, nd I've got them in Thursday night.

MSU has some talent, so I'd put them in the top 5. That leaves Evansville for the 6th spot. Then it goes like this:

1. WSU
2. InSU
---BIG, BIG, BIG Gap
3. UNI
4. BU
5. MSU
6. UE
7. IlSU
8. Loyola
9. SIU
10. DU

SIU and DU will be bad. I have confidence Hinson will get SIU turned around, but he lost a lot of talent off of a bad team. Loyola could be a surprise and move up a notch or two. They didn't lose much and had a very young team last year.

I expect the entire Thursday night field to have RPI's above 200. The 5th-place team could be in the 125 - 150 range. That's not going to put the MVC in the top-10 RPI leagues.

[wufan]

MSU has some talent, so I'd put them in the top 5.

MSU does have some talent, but they have one mediocre 6-7 post in KIrk. He will be a junior this year, so he could still improve dramatically. They added a 6-7 senior transfer that has some talent. Then they have a 6-10 freshman and a 6-10 sophomore that didn't play much on a weak front court team last year. I'm not sure if they will have enough front court to be competitive.

[another shocker]

Too much talk about Cr8ton.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...hout-creighton

yep. wichita state would have been the clear favorite next year in the conference even if creighton was still in the valley, is what those type of articles seem to miss.

[Aargh]

yep. wichita state would have been the clear favorite next year in the conference even if creighton was still in the valley, is what those type of articles seem to miss.

Those types of articles would have been all over Dougie and drooling over how great CU was going to be with Dougie back. They would point out what WSU lost and ignore the effect on CU of losing Echenique and Gibbs. These types of articles would have predicted CU to tke the Valley with ease. That would have dissed the Shocks and ensured that they #PlayAngry.

Without that, it's going to be up to the players to stay focused andaconcentrate every game. There's a big difference between wanting to prove something and having to prove something.

Oh, and if MSU has a weakness in the front court and shouldn't be projected in the top half of the league, then you've got to move UE up to 5th and drop MSU to 6th. Evansville minus Colt Ryan = uh, I have no idea. The only offense anybody on that team knows how to run is to set about a dozen screens for Ryan every time down the court. I fear Evansville is learning a new offense next year, and I'm not optimistic about the results.