Gonzaga of the midwest

[SubGod22]

Going to the B1G doesn't make it any easier. Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State.

[Shockeriffic]

And the common denominator between Gonzaga, VCU, and Butler? The head coach. George Mason's Larrañaga went to Miami, the other head coaches have stayed. Glad that Marshall isn't one always looking for the greener pasture.

Gonzaga began their success under Dan Monson, VCU under Jeff Capel and Anthony Grant, and Butler under Todd Lickliter. Larranaga stayed at George Mason for 5 years after their Final Four run. Stevens, Smart and Few saw their mentors leave for greener pastures and have much less success. They learned from their mistakes.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Itll be interesting to see if Delonte can keep the MD/BMORE talent to stay which is one of the biggest reasons Maryland has struggled. So much talent comes out of that area (most recently Michael Beasley, Kevin Durant and in the past such as Juan Dixon and Carmelo Anthony)

I dont have any confidence in Mark Turgeons recruiting at that level (pun intended)

[ShockerPrez]

Going to the B1G doesn't make it any easier. Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State.

No, but they wont be the ***** of thevACC...

[Shox21]

yea but Larranaga has justified his jump with a sweet 16 within 2 years...cant say the same about alot of people who make the jump...ie Mark Turgeon...if your gonna jump ship from a good program you better justify it by doing better at your next gig, otherwise you look like an idiot...just the way it is...GOSHOX

You need to remember that WE were not exactly a great team Mark's last year even though we started out great and then went to hell in a handbasket. And Mark didn't go directly to Maryland. He had a short layover at A&M (but I don't think he liked having to play Kansas every year). Maryland may never be the best in its conference but it is in a better conference than we are. And I look for Maryland under Turgeon to get to the dance more often than not (mostly because of conference affiliation). Plus he has Mattie B with him.

[Rlh04d]

And the common denominator between Gonzaga, VCU, and Butler? The head coach. George Mason's Larrañaga went to Miami, the other head coaches have stayed. Glad that Marshall isn't one always looking for the greener pasture.

I think it goes farther than that. Not to dismiss George Mason, because I like their fans, but I think they were more of a flash in the pan. Really they just didn't have the foundation in place to capitalize on success, or the money to pay Larranaga what he deserved. I see Butler and VCU as threats to make another deep run every year ... I think GM is a threat to maybe make the Sweet 16 again.

At least that was my take on it without the knowledge of the program that GM fans would have.

[ShockTalk]

I think it goes farther than that. Not to dismiss George Mason, because I like their fans, but I think they were more of a flash in the pan. Really they just didn't have the foundation in place to capitalize on success, or the money to pay Larranaga what he deserved. I see Butler and VCU as threats to make another deep run every year ... I think GM is a threat to maybe make the Sweet 16 again.

At least that was my take on it without the knowledge of the program that GM fans would have.

As far as the Dance is concerned, GM has made it 6 times, 5 since 1999. The Final Four run included their only wins. Also made the NIT 4 times, 3 since 2002.

[Rlh04d]

As far as the Dance is concerned, GM has made it 6 times, 5 since 1999. The Final Four run included their only wins. Also made the NIT 4 times, 3 since 2002.

They beat Villanova in 2011, too. Foundation wise I was thinking more about fanbase, donors, alumni, profit, etc., etc. I don't think they were in a great position to take advantage of big success. Long term they can keep progressing, but I never got the feeling that they were "that one run" off being a big deal. I don't think GM has ever sold out their arena ... 9,900 is their record high, but I don't know if they consider that a sellout. For being a very big school (30,000 students) they should be able to capitalize on that more following a big run in their best sport to become financially healthy for a while, but a few years later now they're at less than half of capacity.

Even right after GM's big run, and before VCU had their run, GM wasn't beating VCU by much in attendance. They averaged 1200 more fans immediately after the Sweet 16, but that closed in a hurry, and they were never close to averaging a sellout.

[ShockTalk]

They beat Villanova in 2011, too. Foundation wise I was thinking more about fanbase, donors, alumni, profit, etc., etc. I don't think they were in a great position to take advantage of big success. Long term they can keep progressing, but I never got the feeling that they were "that one run" off being a big deal. I don't think GM has ever sold out their arena ... 9,900 is their record high, but I don't know if they consider that a sellout. For being a very big school (30,000 students) they should be able to capitalize on that more following a big run in their best sport to become financially healthy for a while, but a few years later now they're at less than half of capacity.

Even right after GM's big run, and before VCU had their run, GM wasn't beating VCU by much in attendance. They averaged 1200 more fans immediately after the Sweet 16, but that closed in a hurry, and they were never close to averaging a sellout.

I certainly don't know their financial strength, but their attendance isn't bad. GM averaged about 5400 this year or about 70,000 total. Without getting too involved, since much of the AAC is made up of a lot of C-USA teams, I look at their average attendance minus Memphis (they're over 16,000 per game) and the average total per school was 70,600.

In 2012, Butler averaged 6,600. Given what they had done, I was surprised they were that low. GM's 2012 attendendance was greater than 6 current AAC members (SMU, Tulsa, Houston, East Carolina, Tulane, S. Florida).

All that said, it says little about their financial health.

[Rlh04d]

I certainly don't know their financial strength, but their attendance isn't bad. GM averaged about 5400 this year or about 70,000 total. Without getting too involved, since much of the AAC is made up of a lot of C-USA teams, I look at their average attendance minus Memphis (they're over 16,000 per game) and the average total per school was 70,600.

In 2012, Butler averaged 6,600. Given what they had done, I was surprised they were that low. GM's 2012 attendendance was greater than 6 current AAC members (SMU, Tulsa, Houston, East Carolina, Tulane, S. Florida).

All that said, it says little about their financial health.

5400 isn't bad. But it's not really what you need to maintain a top tier program (and the teams you mentioned aren't top tier programs, either). They were also only paying Larranaga about $500k. Between those two facts, they're a pretty decent clip behind Bradley (who haven't had a Final Four to drum up support or give them a coach worth paying to keep). Although they did have $4 million in revenue in 2011 according to the DoE, which would put them ahead of most Valley schools -- I'm not really sure where that revenue comes from. And I can't imagine that number is right ... what were they spending $4m in revenue on if Larranaga made $500k? Regardless, they look to me like a team with the financials to make the tourney every now and then, but will regularly lose a good coach if they can't pay him more.

I've never been sure why Butler's attendance is so low, although they do have less than 5k students, compared to GM's 33k. You do have to compare ticket prices as well as attendance ... Butler season tickets this last season went from $225-589. Not sure if GM's ticket prices have gone up, but in 2010-11 they ranged from $98-196. That's a pretty big dollar difference. We charge about 75% more per ticket than George Mason, and draw nearly twice as many people. Butler seems to charge pretty comparable to us.

Regardless, my point wasn't that GM is a bad team by any means. Just that I don't think they really had the infrastructure to maintain the level of success they found themselves in. They might eventually get back there, but I think VCU is in a much better situation to build on long-term.

[pogo]

On my way out to LA to watch the Shocks I sat beside a couple from Indianapolis and I asked them who they rooted for in basketball. Even though they both graduated from different schools they said Indiana U. I asked them about Butler and they said they followed them but not so much. I was surprised that they didn't follow a local team but chose to root for Indiana instead.

[60Shock]

Probably Yankee fans too.

I've got a golfing buddy who crunches his drive 250-275 yards straight down the middle every damn time. I call him, Mr. Boring.

Not me, life is much more of an adventure, but I definitely enjoy it much more the few times I get lucky. Golf too!

[Shox21]

Every time I see the title to this thread, I smile and shake my head. We have a bit more to prove before calling ourselves "Gonzaga of the Midwest." And, really, I hate that name. I would just rather be called Wichita State and not "[something] of [something]". We are who we are and we have our own identity.

[SpanglerFan316]

I would prefer WSU to be known as "Godzilla of the Midwest" if we have to have some silly epithet.

[ripemupshocks]

On my way out to LA to watch the Shocks I sat beside a couple from Indianapolis and I asked them who they rooted for in basketball. Even though they both graduated from different schools they said Indiana U. I asked them about Butler and they said they followed them but not so much. I was surprised that they didn't follow a local team but chose to root for Indiana instead.

Just like a lot of the chickenhawk fans in Wichita.