Rubber Match Game Thread CU vs. WSU

[RandomJaysFan]

Well, I wish you guys the best. Hopefully we'll see you again in the near future.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

To be fair, he said there were others that would play and maybe start for Creighton, but Baker was the only player that fit the typical CU player profile.

It sounded like he was insulting Baker to me . . .

No to be fair he said exactly that Ron Baker was the only player from our team who could could play for Creighton. Later he tried to back peddle and said some bullshit about "I meant he gets spacing etc"

It was a shot at WSU & Gregg Marshall. Either say what you mean or mean what you say.

and yes @shoxlax: by and large thats probably what he meant but we'll never know because I am sure he'll make up some story again about how he just meant "Ron Baker is an excellent basketball player" and will allow this to be swept under the rug..

[shox2k2]

Well, just got home from my first trip to St. Louis. Thanks to subgod22 for the opportunity to purchase the tickets. I know you posted them for a friend. I took my son (11) we hadn't been to a wsu game in a few years. St. Louis was a blast. My son was randomly selected for the halftime competition. Sorry shocker fans, he lost too. Couldnt get the layup. Our driveway is too slanted so we don't have a goal and is more into baseball and soccer anyway.

I've had the last six hours to contemplate the game. Cu played well. Shox struggled at times. Damn zone. I thought the right call was made not to take a time out. But the more I think about it I believe they had two plays at least where they had a shooter come open off a screen a make a shot on an inbounds. I'm not upset about it. And because CU would have looked to foul most likely they would have had to take a quick shot and left time. It was a great atmosphere. Great trip. I think it helps to know the shox will be in the dance. Nice consolation prize?

[SubGod22]

Well, just got home from my first trip to St. Louis. Thanks to subgod22 for the opportunity to purchase the tickets. I know you posted them for a friend. I took my son (11) we hadn't been to a wsu game in a few years. St. Louis was a blast. My son was randomly selected for the halftime competition. Sorry shocker fans, he lost too. Couldnt get the layup. Our driveway is too slanted so we don't have a goal and is more into baseball and soccer anyway.

I've had the last six hours to contemplate the game. Cu played well. Shox struggled at times. Damn zone. I thought the right call was made not to take a time out. But the more I think about it I believe they had two plays at least where they had a shooter come open off a screen a make a shot on an inbounds. I'm not upset about it. And because CU would have looked to foul most likely they would have had to take a quick shot and left time. It was a great atmosphere. Great trip. I think it helps to know the shox will be in the dance. Nice consolation prize?

I'm glad you and your son were able to go and enjoy the experience. It's definitely a different experience and can be a lot of fun. I hope you two have memories you'll be able to share and cherish with one another for years to come.

[Shoxfan11]

I'm sure it's been said, but it needs to be said again: our fans are absolutely amazing. Even when we were down 13, the entire WSU section was standing up making as much noise as possible, letting our team know we were right behind them every step of the way. It was incredible.

[Rlh04d]

Great game. Amazing job by MA all game. Really, really wish that had turned out differently, but man ... Creighton was absolutely the better team this year. Officiating was good (I only remember being angry about the out of bounds call when it clearly went off a Creighton player's chest), McDermott barely did anything other than put several guys in foul trouble, and their role players buried us.

I don't know what it was like in the stadium, but from watching it on TV, that was an all-Creighton crowd. There was like one little section of WSU fans. It barely looked different than a Creighton home game. Not sure if that was just camera angles, but it came off very poorly.

And screw that announcer that said Baker was the only Shocker who would play for Creighton. Jackass.

Great job by the Shockers battling back at the end of the game. Unfortunately, you need more than one player producing on offense to beat Creighton. Armstead scoring nearly half of our points is not going to cut it, no matter how great he did. Bad time for Williams and Early to both go invisible for three games (22% FGs ...).

[proshox]

I still can't believe nobody else thinks we should have fouled or at least plate really aggressive defense on the last possession. 30 seconds is enough time for five possessions if you play it right.

I love this team and I love this coach, but the two biggest games in the last two years (tonight and VCU) we failed to finish remarkable comebacks. In both games we had the momentum. All we needed was time and it was there and available.

[WuDrWu]

I suspect I'll feel a lot different as the week goes on.....but I am so proud of this team.

26-8. Not many had us 26-8 and it could have been better...and most of it was on pure guts. The few times we shot the ball well, we obliterated our competition.

I'm really, really tired. Mentally and physically. It's hard to put all these feelings into words right now. Why the basketball gods allow CU to win so often is beyond me...night night for now.

[WuDrWu]

I still can't believe nobody else thinks we should have fouled or at least plate really aggressive defense on the last possession. 30 seconds is enough time for five possessions if you play it right.

I love this team and I love this coach, but the two biggest games in the last two years (tonight and VCU) we failed to finish remarkable comebacks. In both games we had the momentum. All we needed was time and it was there and available.

I've thought about this for 8 hours. If we hit the 3, he's a genius. If not he errored. Both options were viable. I would have fouled, but nobody is paying me 1.6 to make those decisions. His calls gave us a chance, that's about all we could hope for shooting less that 38%.

[Shockthemonkey]

Just back from STL. Spent 13 of the last 24 hours on the road but the memories with the kids will be worth it. My son asked as we were walking to the car what WSU did wrong to lose. I told him they were making shots and we were not. Thats basketball. This was our 4th time to STL but our first championship game. We hadn't planned on going but last night we said what the heck and I'm glad we did.

Reading through this thread made me laugh quite a few times as I was thinking the same things at the game. CU is really good when they are hitting their 3s, yes they were wide open but some of our games in the past couple of years they've messed the open ones as well. Can we make a bunny at the rim please? Not sure how many we missed but it was a lot.

Can't say I can complain about MA taking the last shot since he had 28pts on the day. Not sure I would have waited until right at the buzzer like he did giving us a one shot chance when we could have had more than that in the time we had it at the end.

I thought the refs let them play overall as well but I did feel like in the second half we were getting hammered going to the bucket and not getting called. FWIW CU fans behind us thought Gibbs traveled too and probably the best comment of the day from them was "why is Echenique falling on the floor so much?" I think they knew.

One hell of a comeback, I tried to remember on the way home that this was supposed to be a rebuilding year and that made me feel better. I sure hope that Cle feels better as his absence at this tourney probably was one of the real difference makers. Never have I seen an all MVC first teamer have as bad of 3 games as he had. Damn Virus.

Great Job Shox and lets hope we get a good dance card for the TOURNEY I know if feels good that we're in but it will be a long week in my mind until I see us on an official bracket.

[Rlh04d]

I still can't believe nobody else thinks we should have fouled or at least plate really aggressive defense on the last possession. 30 seconds is enough time for five possessions if you play it right.

I love this team and I love this coach, but the two biggest games in the last two years (tonight and VCU) we failed to finish remarkable comebacks. In both games we had the momentum. All we needed was time and it was there and available.

We're a defensive team. I'd prefer to rely on our D to get a stop at the end than rely on a very good free throw shooting team to miss enough FTs for us to win.

You're playing armchair QB and arguing that we should play against our weaknesses and to our opponent's strength because playing to our strength didn't work. Sometimes it won't, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong decision.

[proshox]

We're a defensive team. I'd prefer to rely on our D to get a stop at the end than rely on a very good free throw shooting team to miss enough FTs for us to win.

You're playing armchair QB and arguing that we should play against our weaknesses and to our opponent's strength because playing to our strength didn't work. Sometimes it won't, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong decision.

You are not understanding my suggestion (I am probably doing a poor job of explaining it). I don't care if they make both free throws. All I care about is time.

Look at this way - if you foul the average CU player there are these possible outcomes:

He misses both free throws - less than ten percent chance in a non-pressure situation

He makes one free throw - about a thirty percent chance

He makes both - about a 60 percent chance

He scores three - zero percent chance.

The pay-off is this:

No matter what happens you can at least tie. There is a descent chance that a basket can win the game. More importantly, you can get your best offensive folks on the floor with forty seconds to make a play. Evan if I doesn't work out there is still more time and more chances.

We easily missed out five chances against VCU. At a minimum we missed out on two today.

[calfan]

I think some of you could call Virginia Commonwealth and ask if Armstead taking the last
shot is a good call!

Not enough Williams and Early this weekend. Williams had about 18 last Saturday at Creighton and 0 points today.

Creighton is a good team when they are on. Held McDermott to 14 points and still lose.

Great comeback, a lot of teams would have given up at the 5 minute mark.

[proshox]

I think some of you could call Virginia Commonwealth and ask if Armstead taking the last
shot is a good call!

Not enough Williams and Early this weekend. Williams had about 18 last Saturday at Creighton and 0 points today.

Creighton is a good team when they are on. Held McDermott to 14 points and still lose.

Great comeback, a lot of teams would have given up at the 5 minute mark.

I am all for MA shooting with the game on the line. He deferred too much during the middle part of the second half.

[Rlh04d]

You are not understanding my suggestion (I am probably doing a poor job of explaining it). I don't care if they make both free throws. All I care about is time.

Look at this way - if you foul the average CU player there are these possible outcomes:

He misses both free throws - less than ten percent chance in a non-pressure situation

He makes one free throw - about a thirty percent chance

He makes both - about a 60 percent chance

He scores three - zero percent chance.

The pay-off is this:

No matter what happens you can at least tie. There is a descent chance that a basket can win the game. More importantly, you can get your best offensive folks on the floor with forty seconds to make a play. Evan if I doesn't work out there is still more time and more chances.

We easily missed out five chances against VCU. At a minimum we missed out on two today.

I understand your suggestion. I just think we had a better opportunity to win by playing to our strength and hoping that we're only down one point with 10 seconds to go. We had been making stops to pull back into the game ... we wouldn't have been in that position without our defense shutting them down, so we gambled on them doing it one more time.

If we had an offensive identity, I would agree with you ... I would say that we needed more time to continue to make shots. With a defensive identity, I think you gamble on making a stop and getting the ball back down 1 with 10 seconds to go.

Essentially, you can either gamble that they won't get the 2 points and have 10 seconds to score, or be pretty certain that they're going to get the 2 points and have 40 seconds left. Which, if we then tie the game, Creighton has the last possession to win with 10 seconds to go. Regardless, I think the option we chose plays to our team's strengths the best, and the option you're proposing plays to our weaknesses and Creighton's strengths. Any scenario that ends up with Creighton having the last possession to win is bad in my mind, and the only way they would have had that option is if we had begun fouling.

Any time the choice you make doesn't work, you'll be second guessed. If we had started fouling and it didn't work out, people would be asking why we didn't just rely on our defense. Just the way sports are.