Start Fred NOW!!!!!!

[WstateU]

[ShockerFever]

I just reread the first 5 pages and outside of the emotionally charged first few posts after a horrible stretch by MA, nothing that bad was said. People pointed out that MA had lost his way and was trying to do too much. People were wanting his minutes reduced some and FVV's increased. Nobody was attacking him on all levels. His decision making was questioned, and rightfully so. He had a poor couple of weeks.

And lets face it, since Fred started playing more, MA has been playing better. He's making better decisions and not forcing shots like he was. The only reason this thread is still on page one is because you and Cold have tried to make it into something that it never was.

And there's a big difference in pointing out the negative parts of someones game after they've played horribly and attacking someone no matter what just because you don't like him.

+ 1,000,000

If Cold wanted to call out the posts of MA earlier, I don't really have a problem with it. I still wouldn't take back what I said because it was warranted at the time. But then to bash another player after you bump a thread to whine about another player getting bashed, which he really wasn't, is pretty ridiculous and yes, hypocritical.

[1972Shocker]

This thread does have one redeeming factor and that is we found out what a hippo tail is useful for.

Also in the future whenever a thread get's to this point we can just say "knock of the hippo tail wagging" and not be censored.

[EB 22]

This thread makes me laugh. It's funny to read some fans overreact over small stretches of play and at times start calling for heads. Players struggle at times, that's the nature of the game. But with the right coaching, they can overcome a string of bad games.

[I_Vector_Wu]

Last Call Please!!

[jocoshock]

The same criticisms of JW in this thread have been made over the years about Toure Murray, David Kyles, Garrett Stutz and DWill in past years. The only difference between JW and the others is that HCGM did not have the luxury to let those players sit on the bench in their FR and SO years. They HAD to play. JW, and FVV don't have to play so they don't (or didn't in FVVs case). As a result they have good games and bad games and fewer opportunities to play through the bad ones. Similar comments were also made about Evan Wessell and his future PT prospects last year. Nobody expected him to come out the way he did as the beginning of the season before his injury.

And talk about luxuries. Let's not forget about the luxury of the Redshirt. Ron Baker, Derail Green and others will benefit from an RS year. We would still have Garrett on the team if that luxury existed 5 years ago...

As far as MA is concerned, we had similar growing pains with Clevin and Joe. They had 2 years to work through them MA doesn't, which made his issues more critical. I was critical of MA and stand by my comments when I made them. I now stand gleefully corrected....

[ShockTalk]

The same criticisms of JW in this thread have been made over the years about Toure Murray, David Kyles, Garrett Stutz and DWill in past years. The only difference between JW and the others is that HCGM did not have the luxury to let those players sit on the bench in their FR and SO years. They HAD to play. JW, and FVV don't have to play so they don't (or didn't in FVVs case). As a result they have good games and bad games and fewer opportunities to play through the bad ones. Similar comments were also made about Evan Wessell and his future PT prospects last year. Nobody expected him to come out the way he did as the beginning of the season before his injury.

And talk about luxuries. Let's not forget about the luxury of the Redshirt. Ron Baker, Derail Green and others will benefit from an RS year. We would still have Garrett on the team if that luxury existed 5 years ago...

As far as MA is concerned, we had similar growing pains with Clevin and Joe. They had 2 years to work through them MA doesn't, which made his issues more critical. I was critical of MA and stand by my comments when I made them. I now stand gleefully corrected....

LIked your post, however, Clevin and Joe were Juco players. Mal had played 2 years of D-I ball at Oregon (I know, it's just the PAC-12) and had a full red-shirt year to learn the program. He came out of the gates pretty well at WSU, but just got into a funk.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I'm absolutely amazed at how people will come out of the woodwork to defend a non-factor like Jake White, yet only a few weeks ago there was a mob ready with pitchforks in hand to yank Armstud out of his dorm and behead him. I remember only one person that night standing up to defend him. It makes me sick to my stomach. At this point I could care less if White plays another game as a Shocker, but remove Armstud from the roster and we are staring the NIT straight in the face. What a weird group of individuals. Show respect to those who deserve it.

P.S.

Armstud saved me hundreds of dollars today on Shocker gear. THANKS ARMSTUD!


T


...:cool:

I do not often get into other folks' pissing matches, but I am not sure that a public beat down of a player and corresponding defense against that beat down is serving any useful purpose.

This is what we know about Jake. He is an extra fine kid and student. He is articulate and thoughtful. He representsts the university well. He plays to the best of his ability and he plays hard. He works hard to improved his game. He knows his role on the team and he does not whine and complain about it. All of these attributes deserve respect and they will serve Jake well in his life's pursuits.

While he may not have the athletic ability, skill and talent of other players, I am sure he does not deserve to be fodder or a punching bag for a web-site food fight.

The words in the food fight have become hypercritical and mean spirited.

[GarH]

Thank God none of the fans have any say in who starts and who gets how many minutes. Somehow I kinda like the idea that HCGM who watches them in practice make those decisions.

[GarH]

I do not often get into other folks' pissing matches, but I am not sure that a public beat down of a player and corresponding defense against that beat down is serving any useful purpose.

This is what we know about Jake. He is an extra fine kid and student. He is articulate and thoughtful. He representsts the university well. He plays to the best of his ability and he plays hard. He works hard to improved his game. He knows his role on the team and he does not whine and complain about it. All of these attributes deserve respect and they will serve Jake well in his life's pursuits.

While he may not have the athletic ability, skill and talent of other players, I am sure he does not deserve to be fodder or a punching bag for a web-site food fight.

The words in the food fight have become hypercritical and mean spirited.

Amen!

[BOBB]

Jake White is Lew Kareem Lebron Sikma Jordan Chambers compared to Graham Hatch. Graham Hatch was Anfernee Grant McHale Bird compared to Craig Steven. Can't we all just agree that Craig Steven sucks?

[1972Shocker]

Mal had played 2 years of D-I ball at Oregon (I know, it's just the PAC-12) and had a full red-shirt year to learn the program.

One slight correction although it really doesn't alter your point. Mal played two years at Chipola JC (think that has anything to do with why he is at WSU now?), 1 year at Oregon and 1yr year sitting out as a transfer but able to practice and work in 3G's system.

http://www.goshockers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7500&ATCLID=205251941

In any case, Mal is playing some great ball right now. Let's hope he stays hot and the rest of the team follows along.

:poster_shocks:

[Shockeriffic]

One slight correction although it really doesn't alter your point. Mal played two years at Chipola JC (think that has anything to do with why he is at WSU now?), 1 year at Oregon and 1yr year sitting out as a transfer but able to practice and work in 3G's system.

http://www.goshockers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=7500&ATCLID=205251941

In any case, Mal is playing some great ball right now. Let's hope he stays hot and the rest of the team follows along.

:poster_shocks:

The goshockers article has the years wrong on his JUCO stint and this sentence is included in his Junior year "As a sophomore at Oregon, he played in all 32 games, a starter in 27 outings".

[1972Shocker]

The goshockers article has the years wrong on his JUCO stint and this sentence is included in his Junior year "As a sophomore at Oregon, he played in all 32 games, a starter in 27 outings".

My error. Thanks.

Go Mal, go Fred, go D-Will, go Ehimen, go Jake, etc., etc.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I just reread this thread starting with my latest call for apologies to M. Armstud and the subsequent responses that followed including my initial statement that JW is a "non-factor" in games. It is interesting, if not educational to see what follows next. It warms my heart to see all the support for a player that our coach will hardly play.. really it does. But where was this support for one of the stars of our team?

While trying to get those that greatly disrespected one of the best guards we have seen play in a Shocker uniform in decades to apologize I was: 1) refused apology by some that said his performance justified their comments, 2) called a hypocrite by accurately describing another player's contributions to the team and juxtapositioning his support over a player 10x more effective, and 3) attacked personally while calling for my banishment.

Im absolutely done with Malcolm, I would be happy if he never played another minute in his wichita state career ever again. Our offense is so much better with Fred in there.

Concur. I'm done with armstead.

I've been done with Armstead all year and his antics.

Agreed.

Don't really see the point not to now. Might as well start getting FVV experience leading this team for next season, even if he didn't give us a better shot at winning right now than Armstead. And I think he does, anyway.

I second this motion and would like to impliment it into law.

Mal has his head so far up his ass it is not even funny! The worst thing to happen to us was him hitting that three against vcu and now he thinks he is a shooter and he is not!

You definitely can't do worse than starting FVV over MA, unless of course, FVV dribbles potential game-tying possessions out of bounds off his feet, throws up YMCA junk that doesn't have a prayer to go in, or chucks up 3's like he's Reggie Miller whenever he wants.

I don't care if he learns at all I am done with his bs, he has cost us the last three games. He is the point guard he is to set up the offense and all he wants to do is jack up 3's!

I think we are seeing why MA left Oregon.

I guess you haven't been watching a lot of WSU games lately. I guess the infamous "dribble off the foot" has already been forgotten or you never saw it in the first place. And that's just the tip of the iceberg..

That is the dumbest thing I've read in a while, Mrs. Armstead.

Then I guess Armstead is just an extremely unlucky individual, especially for a senior point guard.

I'd rather have my PG taking 3 or 4 good shots than jacking up 8-12 with at least half of them being very suspect. And at the same time, not turning the ball over.

Imagine if I started a thread solely to attack JW on how slow he is, or how lost he looks at times, or how he loses his defender often, or how he bricks nearly everything he fires from range. Imagine if I did that? And I'm called the hypocrite because I labeled him a "non-factor" when asking for apologies for M. Armstud.

Some of the comments above are not only hateful, they are ignorant. "jacking up shots whenever he wants"?????? WTF!? If you don't know by now that HCGM wants his players to shoot the ball when they are open, then there is no hope for you. Gregg Marshall's teams will always jack up shots and if the player jacking them isn't having a good night he will have a lot of misses. Gregg does NOT tell his players to stop shooting if they are missing. He believes that inhibits them from breaking out of their slump. When our offense wasn't moving and MA had the ball in his hands, he had two choices with the clock running down: 1) he could drive right into the zone, or 2) he could shoot it. If he didn't see an opening in the zone he had to shoot it - sometimes forcing it. Our lack of movement in the offense during poor games was the reason a lot of shots were jacked. That was on everybody's head, not just MA's.

ETA: The hippo video was hilarious! I laughed out loud for quite a while.


T


...:cool: