Start Fred NOW!!!!!!

[MadaboutWu]

I don't think the technicals belong in this conversation. They were a major problem, but coach said there were consequences which weren't disclosed and they have gone away. MA straightened this out and they should be off the table, which I am sure they are with HCGM. The turnovers and decision making are all fair game and I certainly want FVV to continue to get more minutes gradually. But we are going to need plenty of both PGs if we are going to right the ship this season.

[SubGod22]

Of course we need both of them. I think most are just saying we need more than we're getting of FVV and less of MA. If Fred starts or not on Saturday, I hope he plays at least 18 minutes and preferably more.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

We need our best players on the court to bring us out of this slump. There's a strong case to be made that FVV is the best player at his position.

[shockmonster]

We need our best players on the court to bring us out of this slump. There's a strong case to be made that FVV is the best player at his position.

I'm getting closer to this viewpoint but I'm not completely there yet.

[proshox]

We need our best players on the court to bring us out of this slump. There's a strong case to be made that FVV is the best player at his position.

Strong? A case can be made, but that is about it. MA's "problems" can be addressed and corrected by the next game. In contrast, Fred cannot become the defender or ball handler against the better defenders in one game.

Against teams that pressure or hedge ball screens Fred still struggles. I am very excited by Fred's trajectory in the last three games, but I am not convinced that he is a big part of opponents' scouting reports (which is an advantage).

[ShockerFever]

Strong? A case can be made, but that is about it. MA's "problems" can be addressed and corrected by the next game. In contrast, Fred cannot become the defender or ball handler against the better defenders in one game.

Against teams that pressure or hedge ball screens Fred still struggles. I am very excited by Fred's trajectory in the last three games, but I am not convinced that he is a big part of opponents' scouting reports (which is an advantage).

You're a one-trick pony, eh?

Does Armstead do anything wrong in your eyes?

[SubGod22]

Has Fred been beat by the guy he's defending anymore than MA or DWill lately? I believe the answer to that is no. He's not as flashy, but he's solid enough and takes better care of the ball. And he's not looking to get 20 points every night.


I want to see more FVV

[C0|dB|00ded]

The beautiful thing about FVV is that he is improving and looks to be living up to his billing which means he should be a great player for us over the next 3 years. I haven't watched a lot of FVV over the last 3 games or so, but the thing that sticks out in my head about him is that he has been kind of afraid to penetrate. I have seen him make some nice moves recently, but I don't think he is anywhere near the penetrative threat that Armstead is. I also got the impression that he kind of goes through the motions when passing and doesn't look to make many "impact" decisions as point guard. This could be changing lately. I would admit that he makes few mistakes, but again, I think that is because he takes few risks.

When you see MA get 4 turnovers in a game, you have to realize he is playing 30+ minutes and is usually one of the few guys (besides DWill when he is doing it) that can break through zone defenses (and convert) on the drive. MA takes a lot of risks in the game and risks have to be taken in order to win. He risks on steals, he risks on passes, he risks on shots, and he risks on drives. All that has seemed to pay off when we were 19-2.

I personally think the entire team is out of rhythm right now and we are just looking to put the blame on someone. Everybody needs to step it up from the guards to the forwards. I don't doubt that injuries are a BIG part of the lack of enthusiasm we are seeing. We know that DWill is hurt, EO is hurt, we have to imagine that Carl is still hurting somewhat (I mean, the guy had a broken thumb a month ago...). I saw Tekele take a tremendous fall against SIU. You would imagine he is bruised up a bit after that.. Perhaps Jake White still has back problems.. Lufile isn't 100%. The list goes on and on. I suspect the only player on the floor that doesn't hurt somewhat is FVV.


T


...:cool:

[ShockerPhi]

On the defensive argument, don't forget the fact that Freddie was a thief in high school. And he has shown that this year too when he takes the ball right out of the hands of an opposing player. So he does have some defensive edge to him. Its not like he lets people go right around him.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Im absolutely done with Malcolm, I would be happy if he never played another minute in his wichita state career ever again. Our offense is so much better with Fred in there.

Concur. I'm done with armstead.

I've been done with Armstead all year and his antics.

Agreed.

Don't really see the point not to now. Might as well start getting FVV experience leading this team for next season, even if he didn't give us a better shot at winning right now than Armstead. And I think he does, anyway.

I second this motion and would like to impliment it into law.

Mal has his head so far up his ass it is not even funny! The worst thing to happen to us was him hitting that three against vcu and now he thinks he is a shooter and he is not!

I don't care if he learns at all I am done with his bs, he has cost us the last three games. He is the point guard he is to set up the offense and all he wants to do is jack up 3's!

Omg.....


I hadn't read the first page of this thread. You guys seriously need to pull your heads out of your asses. There isn't a guy on the team that works harder or tries harder than MA. He is the only player on our team who has started 24 of 24 games. He is basically tied for most minutes played per game with DWill and Beast. He has 47 steals on the year - you don't get steals like that unless you are giving 100%. We've road Mal like a rented mule all year. He doesn't deserve this kind of treatment.

Here are a few of Mal's notable performances this year - several of which led us to victory against BJ, VCU, DePaul, and Iowa.

02

Armstead, Malcolm

*

5-12

0-4

1-3

0-5

5

3

11

6

3

0

4

33

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

5-10

1-2

6-8

2-1

3

2

17

3

2

0

3

32

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

4-12

3-5

3-5

2-3

5

4

14

5

2

1

4

30

02

Armstead, Malcolm

*

4-8

3-5

0-0

0-3

3

3

11

4

2

0

2

19

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

4-6

2-3

4-6

0-4

4

2

14

5

4

0

3

26

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

5-13

4-6

0-1

1-4

5

1

14

4

3

0

0

33

02

Armstead, Malcolm

*

2-7

1-3

4-4

1-3

4

3

9

9

2

0

2

33

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

8-11

3-4

2-2

1-3

4

2

21

3

5

0

2

32

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

4-9

2-3

0-0

1-4

5

1

10

4

3

0

4

31

02

Armstead, Malcolm

*

5-14

2-8

3-3

2-4

6

0

15

5

2

0

2

36

02

Armstead, Malcolm

*

4-9

2-6

0-0

3-2

5

1

10

8

2

0

4

23

Why don't we leave the f***ing kid alone now?


T


...:cool:

[ShockerPhi]

I'm mainly referring to his performances as of the last couple of games. Ok maybe not take him out as starter, but if Fred is playing better than him in a game, let Fred play! Coach should have seen the evidence in the InSU and UNI games that Malcolm has been struggling to lead the team to victory. And in the SIU game, Fred was doing a hell of a job.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I'm mainly referring to his performances as of the last couple of games. Ok maybe not take him out as starter, but if Fred is playing better than him in a game, let Fred play! Coach should have seen the evidence in the InSU and UNI games that Malcolm has been struggling to lead the team to victory. And in the SIU game, Fred was doing a hell of a job.

Coach sees the big picture.. and the big picture is.. Mal is our starting PG.


T


...:cool:

[pinstripers]

time for Fred to start

[calfan]

Time for Armstead to start and Fred to continue to come off the bench.

WSU may need to change something, but this isn't it.

[ShockerFever]

Omg.....


I hadn't read the first page of this thread. You guys seriously need to pull your heads out of your asses. There isn't a guy on the team that works harder or tries harder than MA. He is the only player on our team who has started 24 of 24 games. He is basically tied for most minutes played per game with DWill and Beast. He has 47 steals on the year - you don't get steals like that unless you are giving 100%. We've road Mal like a rented mule all year. He doesn't deserve this kind of treatment.

Here are a few of Mal's notable performances this year - several of which led us to victory against BJ, VCU, DePaul, and Iowa.

02

Armstead, Malcolm

*

5-12

0-4

1-3

0-5

5

3

11

6

3

0

4

33

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

5-10

1-2

6-8

2-1

3

2

17

3

2

0

3

32

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

4-12

3-5

3-5

2-3

5

4

14

5

2

1

4

30

02

Armstead, Malcolm

*

4-8

3-5

0-0

0-3

3

3

11

4

2

0

2

19

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

4-6

2-3

4-6

0-4

4

2

14

5

4

0

3

26

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

5-13

4-6

0-1

1-4

5

1

14

4

3

0

0

33

02

Armstead, Malcolm

*

2-7

1-3

4-4

1-3

4

3

9

9

2

0

2

33

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

8-11

3-4

2-2

1-3

4

2

21

3

5

0

2

32

02

Armstead, Malcolm

g

4-9

2-3

0-0

1-4

5

1

10

4

3

0

4

31

02

Armstead, Malcolm

*

5-14

2-8

3-3

2-4

6

0

15

5

2

0

2

36

02

Armstead, Malcolm

*

4-9

2-6

0-0

3-2

5

1

10

8

2

0

4

23

Why don't we leave the f***ing kid alone now?


T


...:cool:

Being the leading minute grabber isn't a defense. In fact, that just proves he's logging too many minutes out there when other options are available. Again, he had a few good games, but he's canceled those out with several bad games, including several bad decisions that ultimately led us to having zero shots at wins in the final minute of games. You conveniently just pointed out the positives and left out all the negatives. You could do that with anybody and make them look like a god.

It all comes to him being mediocre. Nothing consistent. Sure, he's gonna still play, but not at the same rate. That's the problem.