Wichita State (9-3) at Temple (7-5) Game Discussion: Jan 03 (Fri)

[ShockTalk]

Until our "obligations" are paid off, we're probably not going to have any real success. That also probably includes holding on to Mills and his stupid rollover contract that is dam*d if you do and dam* if you don't, unless he voluntarily leaves. Hope our heralded AD has this all figured out.

[WuDrWu]

The Kentucky Florida game was ridiculous earlier today. I was asking myself how win didn't lose by 50+ to the Gators.

KState has seemingly missed 30 3s in the first half, most of them terrible shots.

Ok, enough of that.




We have better material than every Valley team. However we're mid-pack at best coaching wise.

We're not a team. We're a collection of misfit toys. Mostly really good young men, but they just aren't on the same page often enough (because they haven't been together long enough) to be consistently a better group. And, at least with the group we're running out there now (no DeGray & no Meeks mostly), we just don't have enough difference makers to force the other team into tough spots.

I know XB is polarizing. I get it. We're toast without him. And I wish the entire team had his fire. He cares. We're in desperate need of care.

Holding our own on the boards was good last night.

Corey playing 15 minutes was very, very bad and I believe poorly managed. He was great to start the game. He CANNOT be allowed to foul out with 5+ minutes to go.

We don't play inside out enough. And I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you that QB is taller version of Seth Tuttle. But good things happen when we get it Bosnjak and we HAVE to get it to Q more often.

Shooting (and shot selection) was ok. Not great, but not bad either. FT shooting which has been really good most of the season, was stinky for the 3rd time this season (somewhat inexplicably). Can't make 57% FT and expect to beat anyone that is decent.

We don't have a Mashburn on our roster.

Our margin of error is very thin. Can't have things like AJ not making a three (and therefore making the other team extend their defense). Can't shoot 57% from the FT. Can't have momentum breaking Technicals. Can't have one of our very best players only play 15 minutes because of foul trouble. We can probably overcome 1 or 2 of those things. Not all 5 though, especially on the road.

We also have almost no feel when it comes to defensive spacing and getting up on ball handlers. It is SO frustrating to watch as someone who understands the game. I'm going to jump off a building if I have to watch another closed double that we can't finish.....it's literally insane how bad we can be at that.

Healthy, this team is 2 or 3 in our conference. The way it is now, we're 7-11 to 9-9, MAYBE 10-8 if our FT Defense returns to the best in the country (ie we get lucky).

As it stands now, we will lose nine seniors, Washington will transfer and Bomba too (if we're lucky). That will leave Zion, TJ & Joy.

I don't even begin to claim I have the answer, but I can say THIS ain't it. We have to do something different. Outside the box thinking because we're NOT going to win the money war, ever.


December 22, 2007 (thanks to WuShock16 for that) my family, a good friend and I literally dug our way out of our driveway and down some of the street for a couple of hours to get to a plowed road so that we could watch WSU play UAB. You had to run my ass over with a sand and salt solution truck to miss a game. Monday, I probably will forget there is even a game scheduled. I know things have happened that are out of anyone's control, but when you've lost ME, I don't know how you fix it.

[forevershockerfan]

7-4 WSU career record with KC.

5-2 at home

2-2 on the road

[ShockerFever]

The Kentucky Florida game was ridiculous earlier today. I was asking myself how win didn't lose by 50+ to the Gators.

KState has seemingly missed 30 3s in the first half, most of them terrible shots.

Ok, enough of that.




We have better material than every Valley team. However we're mid-pack at best coaching wise.

We're not a team. We're a collection of misfit toys. Mostly really good young men, but they just aren't on the same page often enough (because they haven't been together long enough) to be consistently a better group. And, at least with the group we're running out there now (no DeGray & no Meeks mostly), we just don't have enough difference makers to force the other team into tough spots.

I know XB is polarizing. I get it. We're toast without him. And I wish the entire team had his fire. He cares. We're in desperate need of care.

Holding our own on the boards was good last night.

Corey playing 15 minutes was very, very bad and I believe poorly managed. He was great to start the game. He CANNOT be allowed to foul out with 5+ minutes to go.

We don't play inside out enough. And I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you that QB is taller version of Seth Tuttle. But good things happen when we get it Bosnjak and we HAVE to get it to Q more often.

Shooting (and shot selection) was ok. Not great, but not bad either. FT shooting which has been really good most of the season, was stinky for the 3rd time this season (somewhat inexplicably). Can't make 57% FT and expect to beat anyone that is decent.

We don't have a Mashburn on our roster.

Our margin of error is very thin. Can't have things like AJ not making a three (and therefore making the other team extend their defense). Can't shoot 57% from the FT. Can't have momentum breaking Technicals. Can't have one of our very best players only play 15 minutes because of foul trouble. We can probably overcome 1 or 2 of those things. Not all 5 though, especially on the road.

We also have almost no feel when it comes to defensive spacing and getting up on ball handlers. It is SO frustrating to watch as someone who understands the game. I'm going to jump off a building if I have to watch another closed double that we can't finish.....it's literally insane how bad we can be at that.

Healthy, this team is 2 or 3 in our conference. The way it is now, we're 7-11 to 9-9, MAYBE 10-8 if our FT Defense returns to the best in the country (ie we get lucky).

As it stands now, we will lose nine seniors, Washington will transfer and Bomba too (if we're lucky). That will leave Zion, TJ & Joy.

I don't even begin to claim I have the answer, but I can say THIS ain't it. We have to do something different. Outside the box thinking because we're NOT going to win the money war, ever.


December 22, 2007 (thanks to WuShock16 for that) my family, a good friend and I literally dug our way out of our driveway and down some of the street for a couple of hours to get to a plowed road so that we could watch WSU play UAB. You had to run my ass over with a sand and salt solution truck to miss a game. Monday, I probably will forget there is even a game scheduled. I know things have happened that are out of anyone's control, but when you've lost ME, I don't know how you fix it.

Doc isn’t even a real fan.

[shockerfan]

The Kentucky Florida game was ridiculous earlier today. I was asking myself how win didn't lose by 50+ to the Gators.

KState has seemingly missed 30 3s in the first half, most of them terrible shots.

Ok, enough of that.




We have better material than every Valley team. However we're mid-pack at best coaching wise.

We're not a team. We're a collection of misfit toys. Mostly really good young men, but they just aren't on the same page often enough (because they haven't been together long enough) to be consistently a better group. And, at least with the group we're running out there now (no DeGray & no Meeks mostly), we just don't have enough difference makers to force the other team into tough spots.

I know XB is polarizing. I get it. We're toast without him. And I wish the entire team had his fire. He cares. We're in desperate need of care.

Holding our own on the boards was good last night.

Corey playing 15 minutes was very, very bad and I believe poorly managed. He was great to start the game. He CANNOT be allowed to foul out with 5+ minutes to go.

We don't play inside out enough. And I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you that QB is taller version of Seth Tuttle. But good things happen when we get it Bosnjak and we HAVE to get it to Q more often.

Shooting (and shot selection) was ok. Not great, but not bad either. FT shooting which has been really good most of the season, was stinky for the 3rd time this season (somewhat inexplicably). Can't make 57% FT and expect to beat anyone that is decent.

We don't have a Mashburn on our roster.

Our margin of error is very thin. Can't have things like AJ not making a three (and therefore making the other team extend their defense). Can't shoot 57% from the FT. Can't have momentum breaking Technicals. Can't have one of our very best players only play 15 minutes because of foul trouble. We can probably overcome 1 or 2 of those things. Not all 5 though, especially on the road.

We also have almost no feel when it comes to defensive spacing and getting up on ball handlers. It is SO frustrating to watch as someone who understands the game. I'm going to jump off a building if I have to watch another closed double that we can't finish.....it's literally insane how bad we can be at that.

Healthy, this team is 2 or 3 in our conference. The way it is now, we're 7-11 to 9-9, MAYBE 10-8 if our FT Defense returns to the best in the country (ie we get lucky).

As it stands now, we will lose nine seniors, Washington will transfer and Bomba too (if we're lucky). That will leave Zion, TJ & Joy.

I don't even begin to claim I have the answer, but I can say THIS ain't it. We have to do something different. Outside the box thinking because we're NOT going to win the money war, ever.


December 22, 2007 (thanks to WuShock16 for that) my family, a good friend and I literally dug our way out of our driveway and down some of the street for a couple of hours to get to a plowed road so that we could watch WSU play UAB. You had to run my ass over with a sand and salt solution truck to miss a game. Monday, I probably will forget there is even a game scheduled. I know things have happened that are out of anyone's control, but when you've lost ME, I don't know how you fix it.

This post bummed me out for a couple of reasons:

1 - Doc is typically a voice of reason and reality (at least for me) He isn't one to just spout off frustrations and unrealistic expectations. So this saddens me, but I can't disagree with any of it.

2 - I am realizing how much I am beginning to HATE college basketball (and most college sports). Lots of things contributing to this. I do still love and support my University....but that is about all I can say positive.

[WuShock16]

This post bummed me out for a couple of reasons:

1 - Doc is typically a voice of reason and reality (at least for me) He isn't one to just spout off frustrations and unrealistic expectations. So this saddens me, but I can't disagree with any of it.

2 - I am realizing how much I am beginning to HATE college basketball (and most college sports). Lots of things contributing to this. I do still love and support my University....but that is about all I can say positive.

Yep. I’m in that group as well. There supposedly were some good matchups on today. I watched exactly ZERO minutes of it. I really have no desire for any of it. I’ll continue to follow WSU and pay attention to some of the coaches I know, but other than that, I’ll pass.

[shox7]

Doc, as usual you are right on the money. Q needs more touches, the only 2 players that ever pass the ball to him are Bev and Bijan. A small example of your coaching grade from last night is Mills subbed Q out when he brought Bev and Bijan in the game in the first half. In my old age opinion if Q is in the game one or both Bev and Bijan have to be in the game, otherwise Q won’t get the ball with an opportunity to score. Another bone of mine is when we have both bigs in the game at the same time we never try to run a high low play from the top of the key. Almost every other team with the same two bigs would run a high low play multiple times a game. I don’t remember us ever trying to run back door play. We actually ran a couple of different out of bounds play against KState but forgot how to run them last night. I also think 9-9 is a possibility in the league.

[molly jabali]

I value WuDrWu's opinion in the highest regard. He knows basketball ... has coaching on his resume... his thoughts are spot on.

I watched the entire game ( a rarity for me at home) and at 62-56/8, I felt good about it... then.... pooof!!! Gone...
- there is no Mashburn on this team
- i caught myself thinking... reserves from 5 years ago would be 30-32 minute players with this group
- this is a team made up of either previous teams 3-5th best players... maybe... that's not on them... they are who they are
- coaching.... I'd take Steve Eck, Joe Auer, Jackson, Fiegel over Mills....Faber as well

Now watch... win by 20 Monday??

[WeWillShockU2]

Too bad! The win was there if they just make the free throws. Coach Mills takes a lot of criticism but he had them in position to win a crucial road game but he can’t shoot the free throws or put his hand over XB’s big mouth. XB is a pretty solid player but he is a senior and shouldn’t have gotten that technical. Dumb, dumb play.

XB should be more like T Cotton. Let your play do the talking!

[pinstripers]

Too bad! The win was there if they just make the free throws. Coach Mills takes a lot of criticism but he had them in position to win a crucial road game but he can’t shoot the free throws or put his hand over XB’s big mouth. XB is a pretty solid player but he is a senior and shouldn’t have gotten that technical. Dumb, dumb play.

XB should be more like T Cotton. Let your play do the talking!

There will never be another Tekele Cotton

[Dan]

XB is LD Swanson. One of the better players on a crap team. Doesn’t make him a good player.

[molly jabali]

Too bad! The win was there if they just make the free throws. Coach Mills takes a lot of criticism but he had them in position to win a crucial road game but he can’t shoot the free throws or put his hand over XB’s big mouth. XB is a pretty solid player but he is a senior and shouldn’t have gotten that technical. Dumb, dumb play.

XB should be more like T Cotton. Let your play do the talking!

yes...." in position to win".... but in the blink of an eye where it went from 4 up to 10 down... a time out... a reset.... maybe even a joke... who knows? but a coach has to nurse the team home...

I watched Mick Cronin yesterday try to coax his UCLA guys to a win in an obviously hostile Nebraska gym... he did not succeed but he called good timeouts, made timely subs... Nebraska went from 2 up to 12 up, but Cronin was actively trying to to stem the flow.... it just didn't work...
in fairness, he has better players than Mills

[Dan]

It sucks to say, but we have no choice but to be a revolving door of new players. If I’m Mills, I’m bringing in all transfers and JUCO, maybe even hit the JUCOs hard since they have 4 years of eligibility remaining with 2 years of college experience under their belts. I might even hit the D2 and NAIA All American lists. High school kids would be bottom of the radar, they serve no purpose if they aren’t good enough to play.

[BostonWu]

It sucks to say, but we have no choice but to be a revolving door of new players. If I’m Mills, I’m bringing in all transfers and JUCO, maybe even hit the JUCOs hard since they have 4 years of eligibility remaining with 2 years of college experience under their belts. I might even hit the D2 and NAIA All American lists. High school kids would be bottom of the radar, they serve no purpose if they aren’t good enough to play.

Agree we have to get creative. Especially next season attempting to recruit an entire roster.

[Stickboy46]

Too bad! The win was there if they just make the free throws. Coach Mills takes a lot of criticism but he had them in position to win a crucial road game but he can’t shoot the free throws or put his hand over XB’s big mouth. XB is a pretty solid player but he is a senior and shouldn’t have gotten that technical. Dumb, dumb play.

XB should be more like T Cotton. Let your play do the talking!

Counter point, he had the team in a position where they could lose it .. and they did. If we want to be where we SHOULD be .. That Temple team shouldn't have even been close. Mills let Temple go on a run and completely flip the game.