Kansas State (6-4) at Wichita State (8-3) Game Discussion: Dec 21 (Sat)

[pinstripers]

is there any chance of getting Meeks back this year??

I believe there is a chance, but that's all.

[WuDrWu]

As many others have stated, it felt good to be "there" at least one more time. I don't know what the rest of the season will bring.....hell, I don't know what tomorrow will bring.

I love the game of basketball. I always have. I went to Gene's camps as a kid and had Antoine bury my ass teaching me to block out....outdoors, on asphalt. LOVED IT. So many of my most enjoyable sports moments are WSU related. I have WONDERFUL friends on this very forum, both old and new, because of basketball, and most because of WSU basketball.

I don't know if I'll ever see a game again like last night, but damn, I was happy to enjoy last night. And as so often happens, there were a ton of "extras" that made the game that much better. Surrounded by people I haven't seen in months or years....and new friends I get to enjoy being with at the games. One friend that lost his spouse not that long ago, an amazing person, who has found someone new in his life. Lots of good people everywhere.

As many noted, Charles was in attendance. I don't know where our program, this University, hell....this city would be without him and his generosity. I saw Al Higdon, a former Windwagon Smith, a man who has put countless people to work over his lifetime, made so many of them independently wealthy while donating his time and money quietly to all kinds of charities over the years. A GREAT Wichitan, a better person.

On my way out I ran into Clevin Hannah. I've known Clev since he arrived in Wichita. He's ALWAYS been kind and friendly to me, for no particular reason other than he's a great dude. He saw me first, stopped what he was doing to come over and say hi. I LOVE that he's still in the area, living in Maize. He's great.

Where would we be without Tom Kosich? The man lives in California and made his life there. IYKYK that he absolutely does NOT have to give generously of his time and money to the programs, but a guy who wore the uniform and was a good but not a star in his playing days, is now a freaking superstar in what he does for his alma mater. He looks great, is doing great, and I adore seeing him at the games. I hope he knows how much he is appreciated (and I've told him, but I'm 1 chowderhead he barely remembers from his time in Wichita).

And more encounters that aren't worth discussing here, again, IYKYK.


I want to give credit to ADKS and his staff. They endured quite a beating from this forum about how this game was marketed. Would I have liked to see 2K more? Of course! But it appears that they maximized the potential of the game, and from that point of view, it has to be considered a home run. GREAT crowd. GREAT energy. Halftime entertainment was solid if unspectacular, but still good. The place looked good, sounded good....FELT good. You had to wait for concessions.....good! So did I. It's supposed to be that way. Student section.....FANTASTIC! Damn it guys, why can't you be there more often??! Freaking great. It's the way a game SHOULD go off.

And hats off to the KSTATE fans. I always think games like that, with a formidable visiting crowd, can get contentious, especially when you have plenty of of visiting fans who may often be wearing home colors. Lots of houses divided. The opportunity for things to get chippy is there but those in attendance were super. Loud, proud KSTATE fans but respectful guests too. PERFECT. Unlike the usual response seen from dickwads from Lawrence.

I'm just going to say this once because, as always, we have nothing to say about the outcome. Of ALL the games we play, especially non-con, this is a game that SHOULD ALWAYS BE PLAYED. We're in the same state. I get we're little brother, but we've got some game, some cache. We got better last night, and so did KSTATE whether they know it yet or not. That game should always be played because it's good for everyone and damn it, it's the right common sense thing to do. And if we're being honest, having an in state kid who wanted to win that game just a little bit more than anyone else may have been the difference. How on Earth is that a bad thing? Tell me why playing Uptown State is better than playing WSU? It's not. It never will be. Play the damn game.

If that's the last game I get to see like that, I am grateful I've been able to see and attend so many, and I thank everyone that was there that made the game special, and especially the staffs, coaches and players that laid it all on the line and savored a long, delicious sip from the Chalice of Victory one more time.

[rjl]

This is going to be an up and down season. That much is obvious.

And I will be the first in line to eat crow if we wind up being a decent-to-good team by the end of the season. Saw a lot to like last night. Hope we can keep it going.

I still don't know how the memory of that UKC game can be wiped. That was a colossal failure from top to bottom. I have trouble reconciling that that was the same team as last night. A mystery for the ages, I suppose, but one I hope stays firmly planted in the past.

[C0|dB|00ded]

As many others have stated, it felt good to be "there" at least one more time. I don't know what the rest of the season will bring.....hell, I don't know what tomorrow will bring.

I love the game of basketball. I always have. I went to Gene's camps as a kid and had Antoine bury my ass teaching me to block out....outdoors, on asphalt. LOVED IT. So many of my most enjoyable sports moments are WSU related. I have WONDERFUL friends on this very forum, both old and new, because of basketball, and most because of WSU basketball.

I don't know if I'll ever see a game again like last night, but damn, I was happy to enjoy last night. And as so often happens, there were a ton of "extras" that made the game that much better. Surrounded by people I haven't seen in months or years....and new friends I get to enjoy being with at the games. One friend that lost his spouse not that long ago, an amazing person, who has found someone new in his life. Lots of good people everywhere.

As many noted, Charles was in attendance. I don't know where our program, this University, hell....this city would be without him and his generosity. I saw Al Higdon, a former Windwagon Smith, a man who has put countless people to work over his lifetime, made so many of them independently wealthy while donating his time and money quietly to all kinds of charities over the years. A GREAT Wichitan, a better person.

On my way out I ran into Clevin Hannah. I've known Clev since he arrived in Wichita. He's ALWAYS been kind and friendly to me, for no particular reason other than he's a great dude. He saw me first, stopped what he was doing to come over and say hi. I LOVE that he's still in the area, living in Maize. He's great.

Where would we be without Tom Kosich? The man lives in California and made his life there. IYKYK that he absolutely does NOT have to give generously of his time and money to the programs, but a guy who wore the uniform and was a good but not a star in his playing days, is now a freaking superstar in what he does for his alma mater. He looks great, is doing great, and I adore seeing him at the games. I hope he knows how much he is appreciated (and I've told him, but I'm 1 chowderhead he barely remembers from his time in Wichita).

And more encounters that aren't worth discussing here, again, IYKYK.


I want to give credit to ADKS and his staff. They endured quite a beating from this forum about how this game was marketed. Would I have liked to see 2K more? Of course! But it appears that they maximized the potential of the game, and from that point of view, it has to be considered a home run. GREAT crowd. GREAT energy. Halftime entertainment was solid if unspectacular, but still good. The place looked good, sounded good....FELT good. You had to wait for concessions.....good! So did I. It's supposed to be that way. Student section.....FANTASTIC! Damn it guys, why can't you be there more often??! Freaking great. It's the way a game SHOULD go off.

And hats off to the KSTATE fans. I always think games like that, with a formidable visiting crowd, can get contentious, especially when you have plenty of of visiting fans who may often be wearing home colors. Lots of houses divided. The opportunity for things to get chippy is there but those in attendance were super. Loud, proud KSTATE fans but respectful guests too. PERFECT. Unlike the usual response seen from dickwads from Lawrence.

I'm just going to say this once because, as always, we have nothing to say about the outcome. Of ALL the games we play, especially non-con, this is a game that SHOULD ALWAYS BE PLAYED. We're in the same state. I get we're little brother, but we've got some game, some cache. We got better last night, and so did KSTATE whether they know it yet or not. That game should always be played because it's good for everyone and damn it, it's the right common sense thing to do. And if we're being honest, having an in state kid who wanted to win that game just a little bit more than anyone else may have been the difference. How on Earth is that a bad thing? Tell me why playing Uptown State is better than playing WSU? It's not. It never will be. Play the damn game.

If that's the last game I get to see like that, I am grateful I've been able to see and attend so many, and I thank everyone that was there that made the game special, and especially the staffs, coaches and players that laid it all on the line and savored a long, delicious sip from the Chalice of Victory one more time.

[C0|dB|00ded]

What a lovely Christmas present! Thx Shox!

I laughed my ass off when I saw the score. Wasn't surprised one bit!

[WuDrWu]

This certainly was a game where WSU needed a good start. If we're down say, 17-9 at the under 12, we're probably done. KSU out athleted us all over the floor. But our guys put their collective heads down and grinded going INTO the game, and from the opening tip. KSTATE did help us at times, but we made our own fortune too.

I was scared to death coming out of halftime. A bad end to the first half and KSU has the ball. We go down 6 or 7 and doubt takes over...who knows what happens there.


But Q (who was excellent last night) makes a great play stopping the lob which leads to 2 FTs then X goes to his right (still all left handed) and finishes to tie the game and force a quick time out with the score tied. HUGE start to the 2nd half.

I freaking LOVE the way we took the ball to the cup. Aggressive. Not perfect and we got stuffed several times, but we kept after it. And KSTATE fired up 32 threes....we shot 10. You tell me before the game that we're making 4 threes last night....lol, we're losing by 20+ not KSTATE.

Xavier Bell had a big game, no doubt, but damn, Corey Washington. Not only a double/double, not only guarding the most talented player on the floor most of the game who just happens to be at least 4 inches taller, but makes a BUNCH of hustle plays that ignited his team and the crowd. I wish I could freebase that energy. Corey was OUTSTANDING. I said prior to the season that this addition was the one I was looking forward to the most, and the one that could be a difference maker. I think he's starting to find his groove, and this young man is a baller on both ends of the court. He rises up for his 3 like he's dropping every single one. Love his game and when he's diving on the floor and hustling like that.....perfect.

(interrupting player breakdowns) I know our guys shot the ball well, perhaps better than they can expect to, but just do the little things well that can be repeated EVERY DAY. Hustle, off ball movement on offense, block off a little better defensively, be aggressive to the basket. Don't let the ball "stick" (and it rarely did last night). Share the ball. All these things were good last night.

Also, the officiating was good. They managed the game well. The first 10 minutes or so was a damned rock fight. So much contact. But they let the guys settle in and after that it was a good, hard big boy game. They passed on a ball clearly off KSTATE because they allowed contact from Corey. At the end of the game, they looked at the foul against XB because (I believe) they were concerned about the chirping going back and forth and wanted to find a way that would end the game (ie a flagrant foul that would have given WSU the ball and ended another up and back). Didn't happen, but they were thinking about it. Very good crew. They also passed on many opportunities to T up both teams. Rich was out of control late in the first half, yapping at our bench, time and time and time again. He didn't slow down much in the 2nd half until our guys SHUT HIM UP on the scoreboard.


The Hawkins kid for KSTATE is a dude. But he needs to be more selfish. I know he sees the floor and is a way above average facilitator, but he needs to shoot it more. Big time talent.

I'm not going to repeat what others have said. Bell was fantastic. He took one 3 and drilled it. The other 16 shots were basically at the rim. He took one really forced late in the clock from about 10 feet that had no chance, but other than that, damned good. Bosnjak was really good when he was in. Q was the best defender on the floor. Bev was solid. Bijan was EXCELLENT. I had him for 1 mistake only and SO many plus plays. Corey was the best player on the court. Hawkins had 3 points with about 6 minutes to play. Unreal defense. AJ struggled and was really annoyed when he came out of the game in the second half...and I'm not sure why. Not surprisingly he did not re-enter the game. Hope that does linger because we need him.

Really proud of these guys and this effort. Loved seeing Bev smiling at the end. If anyone deserves to enjoy the moment, it's that dude. Let's find a way to repeat that, folks!

[shockrah]

Delete, posted twice

[molly jabali]

As many others have stated, it felt good to be "there" at least one more time. I don't know what the rest of the season will bring.....hell, I don't know what tomorrow will bring.

I love the game of basketball. I always have. I went to Gene's camps as a kid and had Antoine bury my ass teaching me to block out....outdoors, on asphalt. LOVED IT. So many of my most enjoyable sports moments are WSU related. I have WONDERFUL friends on this very forum, both old and new, because of basketball, and most because of WSU basketball.

I don't know if I'll ever see a game again like last night, but damn, I was happy to enjoy last night. And as so often happens, there were a ton of "extras" that made the game that much better. Surrounded by people I haven't seen in months or years....and new friends I get to enjoy being with at the games. One friend that lost his spouse not that long ago, an amazing person, who has found someone new in his life. Lots of good people everywhere.

As many noted, Charles was in attendance. I don't know where our program, this University, hell....this city would be without him and his generosity. I saw Al Higdon, a former Windwagon Smith, a man who has put countless people to work over his lifetime, made so many of them independently wealthy while donating his time and money quietly to all kinds of charities over the years. A GREAT Wichitan, a better person.

On my way out I ran into Clevin Hannah. I've known Clev since he arrived in Wichita. He's ALWAYS been kind and friendly to me, for no particular reason other than he's a great dude. He saw me first, stopped what he was doing to come over and say hi. I LOVE that he's still in the area, living in Maize. He's great.

Where would we be without Tom Kosich? The man lives in California and made his life there. IYKYK that he absolutely does NOT have to give generously of his time and money to the programs, but a guy who wore the uniform and was a good but not a star in his playing days, is now a freaking superstar in what he does for his alma mater. He looks great, is doing great, and I adore seeing him at the games. I hope he knows how much he is appreciated (and I've told him, but I'm 1 chowderhead he barely remembers from his time in Wichita).

And more encounters that aren't worth discussing here, again, IYKYK.


I want to give credit to ADKS and his staff. They endured quite a beating from this forum about how this game was marketed. Would I have liked to see 2K more? Of course! But it appears that they maximized the potential of the game, and from that point of view, it has to be considered a home run. GREAT crowd. GREAT energy. Halftime entertainment was solid if unspectacular, but still good. The place looked good, sounded good....FELT good. You had to wait for concessions.....good! So did I. It's supposed to be that way. Student section.....FANTASTIC! Damn it guys, why can't you be there more often??! Freaking great. It's the way a game SHOULD go off.

And hats off to the KSTATE fans. I always think games like that, with a formidable visiting crowd, can get contentious, especially when you have plenty of of visiting fans who may often be wearing home colors. Lots of houses divided. The opportunity for things to get chippy is there but those in attendance were super. Loud, proud KSTATE fans but respectful guests too. PERFECT. Unlike the usual response seen from dickwads from Lawrence.

I'm just going to say this once because, as always, we have nothing to say about the outcome. Of ALL the games we play, especially non-con, this is a game that SHOULD ALWAYS BE PLAYED. We're in the same state. I get we're little brother, but we've got some game, some cache. We got better last night, and so did KSTATE whether they know it yet or not. That game should always be played because it's good for everyone and damn it, it's the right common sense thing to do. And if we're being honest, having an in state kid who wanted to win that game just a little bit more than anyone else may have been the difference. How on Earth is that a bad thing? Tell me why playing Uptown State is better than playing WSU? It's not. It never will be. Play the damn game.

If that's the last game I get to see like that, I am grateful I've been able to see and attend so many, and I thank everyone that was there that made the game special, and especially the staffs, coaches and players that laid it all on the line and savored a long, delicious sip from the Chalice of Victory one more time.

We've shared many of these hoop moments and yet it has been FOREVER since we broke bread at CKA... must change soon....

[WuDrWu]

Shot selection 2nd half (with shot rating see below)

Hill transition layup contested (4) fouled 2FT
Bell secondary transition driving layup (5) make
Hill transition layup contested (4) fouled 2FT
Washington 3 foot bank iso (4) make
Hill 12 foot baseline fadeaway (2) make
Bell driving 10 footer 2FT (2)
Washington 4 foot bank iso (4) miss
Hill wing 3 (2) make
Hill step back wing 3 (2) miss
Bell 3 foot half hook (3) miss
Bell driving layup (4) miss (block)
Washington 3 pick and fade (4) make (assist Cortes)
Beverly layup 2FT give and go (5) (assist Bosnjak)
Ballard 10 foot half hook (2) miss
Bosnjak 3 foot post hook (4) miss (block)
Bosnjak dunk (5) (assist Beverly)
Bosnjak 12 foot half hook straight on (4) make (assist Cortes)
Ballard dunk (5) make (assist Bosnjak)
Beverly layup (5) make (lob assist Cortes)
Washington driving 3 footer (4) fouled 2FT
Hill transition layup (5) miss blocked
Bosnjak reverse layup iso (5) make
Cortes 10 foot floater (4) make
Bell secondary break driving layup (5) make
Ballard dunk (5) make (Cortes lob assist)
Bell secondary driving 3 footer (3) miss
Ballard tip in (5) make (offensive layup)
Washington wing 3 (4) make (assist Beverly)
Bell driving layup (5) make & 1 FT
Bell scoop 7 footer (2) miss
Bell driving transition layup (4) make
Bell transition layup (4) fouled 2FT (pseudo assist Washington)




1 = Bad shot at a bad time. Usually guarded and or out of the shooters strengths
2 = Take away one negative from a 1 and you've got a 2. Example: Unguarded quick fadeaway from a poor shooter
3 = Most shots will fit into this category. Good, usually guarded shots
4 = Shots in the paint or wide open other shots
5 = Shots at the rim or plays designed for wide open shots for your better or best shooters.


Goals of 1/3 of your shots being 4s or 5s are typical. 40% of shots in that group would be considered a strong half.

Ideally you want zero 1s. Sometimes that's just not possible, but that's the goal.

By my assessment we were 24 out of 32 fours or fives in the second half. 75% great shot selection. You SHOULD shoot 60%+ and score 50+ points if you do that.

I don't think that's by accident and while a fairly poor defensive plan by KSU certainly helped, our coaches and players deserve a lot of credit for their planning and execution.

[WuDrWu]

A couple of other takeaways from this game.

I noticed that many of our rebounds were high pointed boards. Players going to get the ball and not waiting for it. Very much a step in the right direction.

Off ball movement was much improved but we've seen this before. The consistency must improve.

The only thing wrong with the Iso play is relying on it too much. Saturday was a good mix imho. It's not my favorite brand of basketball, but it does have it's place. The Shocks used it well Saturday.

That stretch with Bosnjak in the 2nd half was absolutely beautiful. If that's him getting comfortable and in synch with his teammates, he's going to be a lot of help in conference.


We could really, really, really, really use another post.

[Atxshoxfan]

Off ball movement was much improved but we've seen this before. The consistency must improve.

This x1000... We actually had players cutting to the basket when the ball went inside. Most of the time someone would drive to the hoop while 3 guys stayed on the perimeter with one guy cutting to the hoop. Beverly and Ballard made the best cuts, MB and Cortez made the best passes to those cutters. I always thought MB and Ballard would be a great combo on the floor. Loved seeing that!

As far as rebounding, especially on the defensive end, we just don't block out. That is inexcusable. But can be fixed. On the offensive end it just takes will and determination to get to the ball.

[shockrah]

One thing I liked was on defense, at one point, MB physically pushed Cortez up to more closely guard a KSU player around the 3 point line.

[ShockRef]

Doc,
Your last sentence sounds like an echo from yours truly.
We need another post badly - and one who goes after rebounds like a rabid dog!

That dude from K-State with a name full of consonants that I can not pronounce would be welcomed here.
He liked to mix it up and chase down rebounds and is exactly what this team needs. A robo rebounder!

That is all.

[shockrah]

Doc,
Your last sentence sounds like an echo from yours truly.
We need another post badly - and one who goes after rebounds like a rabid dog!

That dude from K-State with a name full of consonants that I can not pronounce would be welcomed here.
He liked to mix it up and chase down rebounds and is exactly what this team needs. A robo rebounder!

That is all.

Ikegwuruka. His name scared me whenever they called it on the broadcast. Sounded too close to Kangaroo. I guess it was PTSD.

[AZ Shocker]

^^^^^ Lol - same ^^^^^