MVC Non-Conference Games

[ShockerFever]

I believe with all my mind that we are literally inches away from the results you are seeking. I believe this year is the start of our rebirth. I believe this year we don't just beat teams, we punish them. I believe next year we only get better.

So I'll say again, **** the Valley.


T


...:cool:

I believe you are right and I hope to hell that you are right. We still haven't been to the Final 4 or, much less, won a tournament game in 6 years. Just sayin'.

[proshox]

Fever, I wasn't writing about past years were WSU failed to have been noticed in the non-conference schedule. This year's team is in the top 25 with time left to inch up the rankings before the first MVC game. Everything will be fine if we are first or second this year . I do no care if Illinois State loses to to Wyoming tonight because it will not matter.

If I am wrong it will be this scenario - the redbirds and panthers are actually great teams that have had early season stumbles. WSU gets bested by two tournament worthy teams that forgot to prove it in their OOC games. This is a scenario that Memphis and Gonzaga never had to worry about. Unfortunately, WSU has in past years and it probably cost out team a bid or two.

Think about it this way, maybe we would have a few more wins in the tournament (you desperately believe we need) if we had played in a weaker conference - A conference where UNI wouldn't have been there to bust our tournament bubbles (twice).

[ShockerFever]

Fever, I wasn't writing about past years were WSU failed to have been noticed in the non-conference schedule. This year's team is in the top 25 with time left to inch up the rankings before the first MVC game. If we are first or second this year everything will be fine. I do no care if Illinois State loses to to Wyoming tonight because it will not matter.

Do you know why 1st or 2nd will get us a berth this year? Because the Valley, as a whole, is better than it was 2 or 3 years ago when it was getting 1 bid. It's getting more love nationally by several teams, namely WSU and Creighton. Take sCUm's ranking out of the mix, and your prediction is again in jeopardy. We are also parlaying off of last year's success. So you kinda went back on your whole argument there. WSU won't likely have to worry about an at-large if they finish 2nd this year because the Valley is valued better.

And yes, if we "control our own destiny" and win all of our games, then you're right. At 30-0, conference affiliation won't matter.

Gonna call in on the Coach's Show or not?

[ShockTalk]

Is Gonzaga a mid-major?

No. They are a major player within a mid-major (non-BCS) conference. Please shower me with worthy media that says otherwise.

[proshox]

Fever, I am not going to call the coaches show....

Let me start over. I am not oppossed to playing in a great conference or a very weak conference; unfortunately, the Valley is none of the above.

I think we are actually in a pretty good conference and that is the problem. The teams are not good enough to be major players or to have national respect, but they are more than good enough to beat tournament worthy teams. In fact, the Valley is the ultimate worst case scenario since there will only be 2-3 years out of ten where the stars align and the league over achieves with 3-4 bids.

This year's valley isn't better than last years valley. The Shockers and BlueJays are better.

[Aargh]

Everybody had WSU projected for a down year. Lost 5 Seniors, 4 or 5 starters, and most of our scoring and rebounding from the #18 team at the end of last year. Now it's the first week of December, WSU is undefeated and ranked.

If you don't think that gets the attention of the national media, you would be mistaken.

The standard pattern for a non-BCS-affiliated program is to have a good year or two and then fade into obscurity. NIT champion, NCAA at large (#18 ranking), followed by losing essentially everything from that team and being ranked in December the next year. WSU is registering on the national level as a player.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I think we are actually in a pretty good conference and that is the problem. The teams are not good enough to be major players or to have national respect, but they are more than good enough to beat tournament worthy teams. In fact, the Valley is the ultimate worst case scenario since there will only be 2-3 years out of ten where the stars align and the league over achieves with 3-4 bids.

Yep!


T


...:cool:

[proshox]

Everybody had WSU projected for a down year. Lost 5 Seniors, 4 or 5 starters, and most of our scoring and rebounding from the #18 team at the end of last year. Now it's the first week of December, WSU is undefeated and ranked.

If you don't think that gets the attention of the national media, you would be mistaken.

The standard pattern for a non-BCS-affiliated program is to have a good year or two and then fade into obscurity. NIT champion, NCAA at large (#18 ranking), followed by losing essentially everything from that team and being ranked in December the next year. WSU is registering on the national level as a player.

Exactly, we have the respect. They know he can recruit and has recruited. They know he can coach. They know he can motivate. They don't care that we are in Valley as long as he is putting tournament ready teams on the court....

[GoShockers89]

People seem to have trouble understanding the desire for MVC teams to do well.

I can promise you that those of us who get frustrated by league teams sucking ass in the non-conference do not root for those schools out of any sense of altruism. I do not want to see Creighton, Northern Iowa or Evansville win because I like their school, team or fans. I could not care less about them.

The reason I want them to win is because they are on our schedule twice this year. Bids and seeding, like it or not, are based on the quality of your wins. If we have, say, 3 or 4 top 50 wins this year because CU and WSU are the only Missouri Valley teams who finish in that range, it is all but impossible for us to get higher than a 5 or 6 seed in the NCAA Tournament. Having an additional team or two in the top 50 gives us a chance at doubling our number of quality wins and opens the door to being seeded from 1-4 in the dance. The benefits of this are obvious.

We do not have the recent tradition, media support, or conference affiliation to coast into the postseason and receive an advantageous draw. HCGM is working on building the program towards that goal, but we are a couple of deep runs away at this point. When we reach Gonzaga of the 2000s/UNLV of the 1980s/DePaul of the 1980s/Memphis of the Calipari era status I will be happy to stop giving a rat's behind about our schedule and the success of our opponents.

Until then, you are rooting against WSU's self interest if you do not wish for our opponents to give us the chance at quality wins. This. Is. Dumb.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Scenario 1: Being the #24 team in the country and beating up on a bunch of clearly inferior teams gets us a little farther up in the polls, and maybe a 6-7 seed in the tournament. But we sure as hell don't get much national respect.

Scenario 2: Being the #24 team in the country and beating a handful of strong Valley teams, even if we suffer a couple of losses, gets us a much higher ranking and a better seed in the tournament, not to mention valuable experience against quality competition that could prepare us for the teams we will face in the tournament, which could be the difference between winning a game or two or more and being a one and done. And it gets us a hell of a lot more national respect.

Given a choice, I'd prefer scenario 2. I hate this damn conference as much as any of you do, but a weak Valley hurts our program.

[ShockTalk]

Gonzaga never made a Final Four or title game during their run. In fact, the majority of their NCAA performances were one-and-done's and two and done's.

I don't believe it matters to us whether or not our conference is strong. In fact, a weak conference would just about guarantee our appearance in the NCAA's every year. We have the resources and the talent to schedule and beat good teams in the OOC. Most of the programs in our league play spoiler and boy have they spoiled some very good years. I say to hell with all of them.


T


...:cool:

Let's not make light of what Gonzaga has done.

They have made 15 Dances over the last 18 years including the last 14 years in a row.

Won 17 games including 2 against #2 seeds. Of their 15 losses, 5 were to #1 seeds and 2 to #2s.

1 Elite 8, 4 Sweet 16, and to the 2nd round 6 times. Only "one and done" 4 times including their 1st year.

What's our resume again?

[ShockerFever]

No one is suggesting we have a coach that is Valley-level or that we recruit at a Valley-level. The program itself is a major one. The conference is a mid-major one. We are not in a position to where we can just coast through without any quality wins and just assume we're in the dance. We are NOT Gonzaga or Memphis..... YET.

[pinstripers]

To save time, let's copy and paste the previous 20 pages, so that we can get to 40 more quickly.

[WstateU]

It’s ‘Wonder Wu’ to the rescue…

[tropicalshox]

The Southern Illinois vs. Western Kentucky game is on ESPN3 starting at 7pm CST.