Shockers @ VCU- November 13th, 2012 (ESPNU)

[DistrictBaller]

Great article there. Thanks for that! Very informative.

WuDrWu, that is indeed very high praise. I don't know if we are that good, but you're right, Jordan Burgess would have made us even better. He wasn't going to start, but he would have definitely cracked the rotation. He's going to be very good next year with a year to workout and practice with the team.

McDermott is a national superstar and Naismith candidate and we don't have anyone close to that good. What we do have is a lot of depth and talent all the way down the bench. The main thing though, is our intensity and commitment to the system. Everyone buys in which is so huge when you're playing teams with a big talent disparity. There is an intensity to how we play that cannot be quantified by statistics. The style is very atypical to what most programs are used to facing which is why VCU is so deadly in those one-time tournament scenarios where a team hasn't faced us before or had much time to prepare. You can watch tape, but even that only helps so much. Replicating the style in practice is also not the same as playing at game-speed against our length and athletes.

While as a team we may not be as good as our opponents, what our style allows us to be is an awful match up and difficult adjustment for most teams, which many times, is better than having a superior team. Our coach and players have supreme confidence and truly think they can beat anybody, which is nuts to most people, but they do. The style gives us a chance regardless of our opponent, which is why our fans sometimes have illogical optimism when it comes to the perceptions of opposing fans. This was true of our game last year as well as I remember from reading threads on here prior to the game.

There is cause for optimism this year, but replacing a guy like Burgess is no easy task either. He broke Patrick Ewing's NCAA record for most consecutive career starts last season and was a big part of our success over the last 4 years. His leadership and moxy will be missed. I'm excited to see what we can do this year as I'm sure you all are for your Shockers.

I was very surprised to see how quickly and effortlessly Marshall has restocked the cupboard in Wichita. He is obviously a superlative recruiter with the kids he's bringing in. You guys will be in the NCAAs a lot more regularly in the years to come with Marshall at the helm. Hopefully the NCAA will give the Shockers more fair match ups in the future because I can see the Shockers making some runs once the young talent on this squad gains some experience.

[1972Shocker]

Here is the link to the team roster: http://www.goshockers.com/SportSelec...PRINTABLE_PAGE=

Everyone is eligible this year except Kadeem Coleby who has to sit this year under the transfer rules.

The Shocks have nice size and the size they have is pretty athletic. We think we have some good basketall skills. The key to how well the season goes will be the level of intensity and BBIQ we can bring to the court and the quality of team chemistry we develop.

[DistrictBaller]

Here's the VCU roster: http://vcuathletics.com/sports/mbkb/2012-13/roster

There is a lot of size, speed, and athleticism across the board on this squad. D.J. Haley our 7-footer is the exception as far as his speed and athleticism. He's serviceable and helps as a big presence with his 260 pounds on the low block, but he's never going to play more than 20 mpg because of our style.

The rest of those guys are thoroughbreds who can run the floor and are very disruptive in both full and half-court defense.

[WuDrWu]

McDermott is a national superstar and Naismith candidate and we don't have anyone close to that good.

McDermott is special no doubt, but you don't have anyone on the roster that is as bad defensively as he is. He's awful.

[1972Shocker]

The rest of those guys are thoroughbreds who can run the floor and are very disruptive in both full and half-court defense.

And that's a major problem for us. We have too many guys who simply haven't experienced MVC-type a of defense, let alone what VCU can bring to bear. Now how our guys will react and peform is anybody's guess, but it very difficult for Shocker fans to have much confidence going into your game especially at this early point in the season.

[DistrictBaller]

double post

[DistrictBaller]

McDermott is special no doubt, but you don't have anyone on the roster that is as bad defensively as he is. He's awful.

That's probably true. No one gets on the floor for us who can't play our defense. That's our identity first and foremost. Creighton is getting more love than we are in the preseason so far, but it should be interesting to see if we can overtake them over the course of the season since we have some early opportunities to get some marquee wins with Wichita State, Alabama, Belmont, and Lehigh coming to VCU and playing in a loaded preseason tournament with Memphis in the first-round and then Minnesota/Duke. We'll see just how good we are in short order.

As a bit of an aside, is there any truth to the rumor that Creighton is trying to lobby for A-10 membership? One of the Creighton posters was on the A-10 boards earlier saying that there was some communication between the 2 parties about possibly joining. That seems a bit outrageous given that they are in Omaha, but I wonder if there is any truth to it?

[CBB_Fan]

Here's the deal with Wichita State:

Last year, we were an in-and-out half-court team mostly, defined by good defense and a high efficiency offense. While we were very deep, our offense seemed to be designed around getting Stutz the ball in the post and getting Ragland (#2 3PT shooter in the nation with more the 100 shots) the ball outside. When it worked, we were very, very good, but our last two games were a struggle because we couldn't set up an inside game or hit the 3 like normal.

This year, we've upgraded considerably on an athleticism standpoint. One of the reasons Stutz was ineffective against VCU was that he was perhaps the least athletic player in the entire NCAA, and not really suited to playing a hyper-fast team like VCU. He was very strong, had a good shot out to even the 3PT line (at one point in the season, he had made his last 6 shots from deep), but he could not run like a gazelle or jump like a kangaroo. Fast teams exploited that, like VCU, and he was rendered ineffective after a few early fouls took him out of his game.

In his place, we will mostly play another 7' player in Orukpe or a 6'8 backup from last year in Carl Hall. Orukpe is the opposite of Stutz. He is ridiculously athletic, but has a very limited post game (dunks and a hook shot, and last year just dunks). Carl Hall was better last year, but still didn't have any range (5 ft max) last year. Hall actually played about twice as much as Stutz did in our game against you (10 points, 8 rebounds), so he's seen the type of defense you play. Carl Hall is by far the most improved returning player that I've seen, and that mostly comes from an increased range. He's gone from a guy that commonly bricked bunnies to a guy that can step out and hit 15-17 ft jump shots with good form. He was named the Shockers' most inspirational player, because he was diagnosed with a heart condition after playing only three games in junior college, which led to the NCAA granting him a rare 6th season of eligibility for medical hardships.

On the other hand, Orukpe may have more defensive impact than any other play on our team. He averaged a block every 7.8 minutes last year, which is nearly 5 blocks per 40 minutes. When he is in, it is very hard to penetrate and score against him, and he often forces players to change their shots or abandon the drive just by being in the game (which is more important than the shots he actually blocks). He didn't play much against VCU though because he was so offensively inept that he would stall any attempts at a comeback. This year, he has worked on developing a rudimentary post game, but he still likely has problems. He is a perhaps too smart for his own good (Math major with 3.7 GPA), and often spends his time thinking instead of purely reacting. He did, however, score the first 4 points in the inter-squad scrimmage, leaving some hope that he can score.

Behind both of those is Chadrack Lufile. He is a Canadian with little experience (JUCO or otherwise), but seems to be ahead of the curve. Videos show that he is a hard worker and a court runner, and has a very quick learning curve for the post game. However, don't expect to see him much; he is nursing a shoulder injury and may be out of the game for a while. This will push Hall to playing more C and Early more PF, but otherwise the team will mostly be the same. Expect to see him a lot more next year.

The other major additions to our front court come in the form of two JUCO All-Americans, Cleanthony Early and Nick Wiggins. Wiggins will likely play more SG than SF, but right now his playing time is in question because he doesn't seem to be adjusting to D1 ball very quickly. This is most noticeable on defense. Wiggins, however, has the physical talents to excel if he uses them, as the 6'6" guard is the brother of #1 overall recruit Andrew Wiggins, and shares many of the same explosive characteristics (and also gives some Shocker fans hope of pulling a colossal recruiting coup, though even the craziest fans admit that is unlikely). Early, on the other hand, is a 6'8" SF/PF that is a two-time JUCO PoY. He is a phenomenal talent with the speed to play on the wing (and good shooting touch), along with the size to play PF. If Hall is going to lead us in scoring, Early will likely be second, and he also will probably be second on the team in blocked shots (he blocked Orukpe in the scrimmage, which pretty much never happens in regular games). Given how early (or should I say "Early"), our game is with you, I don't think you'll see much of Wiggins, and Early may still be adjusting to the game.

Now, onto the backcourt. Our PG will be Malcolm Armstead, and he is a player that could give VCU a dose of its own medicine. He played in front of former Shocker Clevin Hannah (who led Wichita State in scoring, 3PT shooting, assists, and steals) when they were in junior college (Gregg Marshall LOVES JUCO players), despite being a year younger. After leaving that JUCO, he was the starting PG at Oregon. While he didn't display his best shooting stroke in his time there, he was a decent scorer and a thief. He set Oregon's record for steals in a season twice. He won't be able to replace Joe Ragland's offense, but Shocker fans reasonably expect him to be a better defender and a still decent 3PT shooter after shooting over 50% in his JUCO seasons.

Behind him, you have the #1 recruit in the Valley, Fred Van Vleet. One word to describe him: "winner." As a fellow midmajor school, Van Vleet is the type of guy you have to admire. Despite being consistently under-ranked and not acknowledges, his entire high school career was defined by winning, often over teams led by higher ranked recruits. Currently, he is battling injury, but he should be able to play against VCU. He is another story for the Shockers, as his father was killed when he was only 5 years old. He'll be a 3 year starter, but we'll see what he brings this season.

The other newcomer to our backcourt is Ron Baker, nickname "The Hair" (not really, but he should be). He'll probably play behind veterans Demetric Williams and Tekele Cotton at the SG position. He is mostly known for being a very good outside shooter, but likely will have limited playing time this year behind two of Marshall's favorite players (because they play very good defense.) Those aforementioned veterans are not really known for being scoring threats, but the Shockers tended to play better with them in than with them out. Both are solid players that can play PG or SG and play good defense.

In summary, here is what we have (also with notes on players I didn't spend much time on):

PG:
6'0" Malcolm Armstead (thief, outside shooter)
5'10" Fred Van Vleet (winner, possible best assist man)

SG:
6'2" Demetric Williams (glue guy, currently injured)
6'2" Tekele Cotton (glue guy 2.0)
6'3" Ron Baker (3PT specialist)

SF:
6'8" Cleanthony Early (super-athlete with range, maybe questionable defense)
6'6" Nick Wiggins (another athlete, mostly drives, definitely questionable, may play more SG)
6'5" Evan Wessel (energy man, improved from last year, does little things right)

PF:

6'8" Carl Hall (expanded range, BEAST, player I'd least want to get in a fight with)
6'8" Cleanthony Early (may start at PF)
6'8" Jake White (another energy player, but also an outside threat)

C:

6'8" Carl Hall
7'0" Ehimen Orukpe (block specialist, beginning to get an offense)
6'9" Chadrack Lufile (learning game quickly, likely injured though)

In short, we will miss the offensive games of Ragland and Stutz, no doubt about it. However, we should be a better defensive team, and more athletic. We won't run VCU off the court with our ability to make baskets, so our best hope is to out-stifle the stifling defense of the Rams. This may likely be a loss for the inexperienced Shockers, but it should be an important game for the team's development, and a win would give us a better shot at an at-large berth.

[DistrictBaller]

Sounds like a lot of new faces that are extremely talented but will have a lot of question marks and adjusting to do this early in the season. It's unfortunate that there seem to be some injuries over there as well. This sounds like a team that will be much better in February than it is in November. It looks like we drew the Shockers at an ideal time for us to have the best chance at winning.

I have no doubt win or lose that this game will help us and look good on our resume in March if we manage to win. I know the Wiggins family as I played high school ball in the same region with Nick in Toronto where I'm from. He and his brother were big stars at Vaughan in suburban Toronto before moving down to the U.S. to pursue basketball opportunities. As for getting Andrew to commit to Wichita State, no comment. He's a great kid and he's going to be a ridiculous basketball player in the NBA sooner rather than later.

[CBB_Fan]

Sounds like a lot of new faces that are extremely talented but will have a lot of question marks and adjusting to do this early in the season. It's unfortunate that there seem to be some injuries over there as well. This sounds like a team that will be much better in February than it is in November. It looks like we drew the Shockers at an ideal time for us to have the best chance at winning.

I have no doubt win or lose that this game will help us and look good on our resume in March if we manage to win. I know the Wiggins family as I played high school ball in the same region with Nick in Toronto where I'm from. He and his brother were big stars at Vaughan in suburban Toronto before moving down to the U.S. to pursue basketball opportunities. As for getting Andrew to commit to Wichita State, no comment. He's a great kid and he's going to be a ridiculous basketball player in the NBA sooner rather than later.

Pretty much. Mostly, I just wanted to post something about the new faces so you have something to expect. I expect our defense to be ahead of our offense when we play you, but we have shooters and scorers that may be good later in the season.

On Wiggins: We have a 0% chance of signing him if he never watches a game in Koch Arena (yeah, those Kochs). That improves to a 0.1% chance if he comes and loves the place. Right now though, I care far more about Nick Wiggins than Andrew Wiggins, and hope to see him adjust quickly the the D1 level of play. We could be a very surprising team this year, but I don't think anyone is going to be surprised by VCU again.

[DistrictBaller]

I see a lot of parallels between VCU last year and Wichita State this year actually. The year before VCU went to the Final Four, graduated 4 of our top 5 scorers, and we were expected to take a major step back. We had 9 underclassmen and 6 freshmen and all but 1 player were really increasing their roles. They were all having to step into roles they'd never played before.

We started off slow with a win over a D2 squad and then a bad NEC team in the home opener that was closer than it should have been. We then went to the Charleston Classic where we looked awful against BCS opponents. Our players really lacked a team identity and our inexperience was plainly evident. We lost by 15 to Seton Hall and by 13 to Georgia Tech, who were average to really bad major conference teams, and then barely beat a Western Kentucky team that ended up being sub-.500 in the final game of the tournament by 5 points. At that point of the season many of our fans tempered our expectations, thinking that our youth and inexperience counted for more than we thought it might going into the year.

Shaka Smart obviously had our team's full attention after that stretch, we worked hard, our new players bought in and the team looked completely different by the end of November. In the next game, in an odd situation, we had to go on the road to play that same Western Kentucky team as an OOC game, this time the Rams won by 23. We then went on the road to then #13 Alabama and led for large stretches of the game before our point guard fouled out with 4 minutes to go and we ended up losing in Tuscaloosa. From November 30th on, we lost 3 games by a combined 9 points the rest of the season going into the NCAAs and doing something no one expected we'd do all over again by advancing in the NCAAs against one of the best teams in the country, mid-major or not.

I can see Wichita State on a similar arc where you have some trouble in November, but then really start to click mid-way through the OOC schedule. You have the pieces in place to be extremely strong when it all comes together. This VCU game could be a case of being thrown into the fire, but the Shockers will be better for it, much like the losses to Seton Hall and Georgia Tech were for us last year. Those experiences will pay dividends for a young team because it will get your guys focused, keyed on to what Coach Marshall says, and give your players motivation to prove the media and opposing fans who will try to write your team off as dead-wrong.

[CBB_Fan]

I see a lot of parallels between VCU last year and Wichita State this year actually. The year before VCU went to the Final Four, graduated 4 of our top 5 scorers, and we were expected to take a major step back. We had 9 underclassmen and 6 freshmen and all but 1 player were really increasing their roles. They were all having to step into roles they'd never played before.

We started off slow with a win over a D2 squad and then a bad NEC team in the home opener that was closer than it should have been. We then went to the Charleston Classic where we looked awful against BCS opponents. Our players really lacked a team identity and our inexperience was plainly evident. We lost by 15 to Seton Hall and by 13 to Georgia Tech, who were average to really bad major conference teams, and then barely beat a Western Kentucky in the final game of the tournament by 5 points. At that point of the season many of our fans tempered our expectations, thinking that our youth and inexperience counted for more than we thought it might going into the year.

Shaka Smart obviously had our team's full attention after that stretch, we worked hard, our new players bought in and the team looked completely different by the end of November. In the next game, in an odd situation, we had to go on the road to play that same Western Kentucky team as an OOC game, this time the Rams won by 23. We then went on the road to then #13 Alabama and led for large stretches of the game before our point guard fouled out with 4 minutes to go and we ended up losing in Tuscaloosa. From November 30th on, we lost 3 games by a combined 9 points the rest of the season going into the NCAAs and doing something no one expected we'd do all over again by advancing in the NCAAs against one of the best teams in the country, mid-major or not.

I can see Wichita State on a similar arc where you have some trouble in November, but then really start to click mid-way through the OOC schedule. You have the pieces in place to be extremely strong when it all comes together. This VCU game could be a case of being thrown into the fire, but the Shockers will be better for it, much like the losses to Seton Hall and Georgia Tech were for us last year. Those experiences will pay dividends for a young team because it will get your guys focused, keyed on to what Coach Marshall says, and give your players motivation to prove the media and opposing fans who will try to write your team off as dead-wrong.

The odd thing with Marshall's team is that they are never really young, but we are definitely inexperienced (perhaps even more-so than VCU in the Final Four year). We'll start 5 upperclassmen (4 seniors and one junior), and combined they will have about 10 seasons of D1 experience. Will that translate to a quicker learning curve? I don't know. I definitely agree on your timeline though, as I think we will be a different team in February than in November.

I think the Shockers will have three really good early tests. One is Iowa, if we meet them in our preseason tournament. The other two are Tennessee and VCU. Of the three, I think we will beat Iowa and have a 50% chance of beating Tennessee, but I really think a loss is more likely at VCU.

((Also, I have a different perspective on Shaka Smart than some fans. I was at the VCU-Wichita State game in Oregon, behind the scenes, and I have nothing but respect for the guy. Some fans think he conducted himself without class with the handshake thing, but I saw him and Marshall in the tunnel before and after the game, along with some fine VCU cheerleaders and the pep bands for both teams. I think Smart is a very good coach, and one of few I've seen the legitimately out-coached Marshall in the NCAA game. Of course, I still think Marshall is better :chuncky:))

[DistrictBaller]

Just to clarify, that was last year's VCU team I was talking about. The Final Four team was quite experienced with several seniors. Last year's team was Shaka Smart's best coaching job at VCU since he got here considering how much we were replacing and who we were replacing it with.

We both agree on Shaka Smart, preference is really a matter of allegiance and what color glasses you're wearing (although I guess they are black and gold for the both of us!).

[CBB_Fan]

Just to clarify, that was last year's VCU team I was talking about. The Final Four team was quite experienced with several seniors. Last year's team was Shaka Smart's best coaching job at VCU since he got here considering how much we were replacing and who we were replacing it with.

We both agree on Shaka Smart, preference is really a matter of allegiance and what color glasses you're wearing (although I guess they are black and gold for the both of us!).

Alright, I misread/misspoke.

[DistrictBaller]

Yeah it's all good, I can see where what I wrote was ambiguous. My bad there.