Annual Fan Clinic - Sunday Oct 21st at 1:00pm

[Smooth007]

I was there and, I'm sorry to say, the event was very poorly attended (although I tend to blame a lack of promotion on that). I stayed until about 10 till 4:00 so did not hear any of the Q&A that was supposed to happen after practice. Did this, indeed, happen and if so, what questions were asked?

I wondered why I didn't see Joe Mitchell and I now have my answer. I had also wondered why I didn't notice Lufile more and that question has been answered.

About every four years I pick one player to follow closely. When Hatch joined the team, he was my guy (even though he got a good deal of grief during his first two years I still stuck with him). This was not out of any great basketball knowledge on my part, but just because. Last year I didn't choose an active player; I chose a redshirt. Yep, Ron Baker. I hope he plays as well as he represented yesterday.

As to Ogirri being a better shooter than Baker (I would never dispute anything Doc had to say), I think time will tell. I liked Sean (even through his troubles) but he seemed streaky to me at times (not as bad as Kyles but he did seem to disappear in quite a few games) and I hope that this not the case with Baker.

Hall and Cotton were --- well, Hall and Cotton. You can't say more than that about those two (and we have Cotton for three years yet -- yeah!).

EO is not going to be the "be all, end all" we had hoped for. Superior athletic talent notwithstanding, I think we should be able to agree that basketball sense needs to be there too. I know EO did not grow up playing basketball the way American kids do and that may be part of the problem.

I think FVV is going to be a great addition to this team. Evan --- well, I still have hope for him. I would love to see a local kid do really good things here.

Wiggins seemed to get his share+ of "instruction" yesterday, but Marshall's system is not easy. Coach's instructions sounded greek to me (but that's not surprising given my indepth understanding :) of the game) and I take my hat off to those young men who actually understand what he wants and then manages to give it to him.

I, unlike some, was actually impressed with Armstead -- hope he keeps it up.

Now, would someone please enlighten me as to Kadeem Coleby. Don't know anything about him, except that he is listed as a Senior. Is he a walk on? Someone mentioned him redshirting this year. Is that feasible for a Senior?

Early seems to be as advertised. Didn't see much difference from last year in White and Williams. I think both will contribute, Williams probably more than White. Since White is a Soph that means we have him for three years yet and that is good news. Zach and Derail are both freshmen and if as reported they will both redshirt, I'm already excited about next year.

There was not any Q & A after the practice. Additionally, the players didn't sign autographs. However, they did come up into the stands and each player thanked every single fan for their attendence. The coaches also spoke to several fans. I think the coach being mic'd all practice was the discussion portion.

A few notes...

1) I must say that if there are two better freshmen in the MVC than Baker and FVV, I will be shocked.
2) Derail Green is a lights out shooter for his size, scratch that, just a lights out shooter. Hopefully that translates when he has a hand in his face.
3) Jake White was really bothering Early. You could tell that Early's athleticism was being neutralized by White when he bodied Early up. I don't think Early is used to someone pushing him, bumping him and boxing him out. Just an observation.
4) PG - Demetric was playing more than I expected but hasn't gotten to full speed yet. I can't imagine Demetric not starting. While Armstead is a great backup/ role playing starter, he doesn't seem like he will produce enough offense beyond penetrating layups and floaters.
5) EO - While his hands appear 200% softer, he couldn't score for anything. Additionally, he was out of position defensively many times. At one point, he almost airballed a 180 degree spin two footer that caused Coach to stop practice and ask him what he was doing.


Hard to put a line-up just after 2+ hours of practice but I would go with.... DW, TC, RB, JW and CH.

[WuDrWu]

I just started thinking more about the rotation.....Williams, Armstead, VanVleet, Baker, Cotton and Wiggins ALL deserve playing time and ALL bring a wide skill set to the table. I'd feel very safe saying that's the best 6 person rotation in the league.

The bigs are where the questions are....Hall is a given and would be among any list of power forwards in the league, favorably, outside of Doug. CJ, Cle', Jake and EO will be how this team is defined I think. I can easily see times where we go small, very small, and run people off the floor. We're going to play tempo this year, mark my words.

Armstead, Williams, Wiggins, Cotton and Hall would seriously get after you and have you cryin' for yo' momma.

So too would VanVleet, Baker, Cotton, Early and EO......ooooo, that's scary.

[WuDrWu]

1) I must say that if there are two better freshmen in the MVC than Baker and FVV, I will be shocked.
2) Derail Green is a lights out shooter for his size, scratch that, just a lights out shooter. Hopefully that translates when he has a hand in his face.
3) Jake White was really bothering Early. You could tell that Early's athleticism was being neutralized by White when he bodied Early up. I don't think Early is used to someone pushing him, bumping him and boxing him out. Just an observation.
4) PG - Demetric was playing more than I expected but hasn't gotten to full speed yet. I can't imagine Demetric not starting. While Armstead is a great backup/ role playing starter, he doesn't seem like he will produce enough offense beyond penetrating layups and floaters.
5) EO - While his hands appear 200% softer, he couldn't score for anything. Additionally, he was out of position defensively many times. At one point, he almost airballed a 180 degree spin two footer that caused Coach to stop practice and ask him what he was doing.


Hard to put a line-up just after 2+ hours of practice but I would go with.... DW, TK, RB, JW and CH.

1. Like I said, must be some good recruiting out there.
2. No doubt. This kid can fill it up. There will be several times the Shocks will go on one of those runs at home where the other coach has to powerslam the ref to get his attention because the rivots are being shaken from the foundation from the crowd noise and a series of Derail threes, each one a couple feet further in distance to the previous, will be at the center of those runs.
3. An excellent example of the benefits of a year in D1. Jake was in Early's head at times yesterday, and when that happened, Cle' struggled to stay focused on the job at hand. Frankly, Jake needs to be in the head of his opponent, because Jake can't flash to the high post, catch the ball, pivot, reverse spin dribble baseline, go around Orupke, rise and posterize the 7'0" behemoth with a 2 handed back scratching thunder dunk that changes the molecular structure of the basket support, like Cleanthony did yesterday.
4.You may very well be correct. I can't imagine DWill at full speed....he was lightning fast yesterday. I like that young man, and I hope he's at full strength from game 1.
5. Sad but oh so true.

[Dan]

I posted way back when Derail was still in high school that he may be the best 3 point shooter for WSU when he first puts on the uniform. Sounds like he has some competition from Baker. It will interesting to see if Derail develops an inside game over the next year. With his height, he could be a deadly inside-out guy.

[WSUwatcher]

Shox21, Coleby is a transfer from Louisiana-Lafayette (the former SW Louisiana) who will be eligible next year as a senior. He's sitting out ("redshirting") because of the transfer.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/.../Summary/26426 (among other sources)

[C0|dB|00ded]

Shockernet plus one public practice equals overreaction most times.

Baker is a fine shooter. In fact he might be the best mid-range shooter I have ever seen -- in practice. But I have seen him get flustered and airball it when some serious DWill/Armstead-type perimeter pressure is put on him. He is stocky and strong, but he isn't exactly the type of player HCGM recruits for his position.. long, athletic, quick. Baker is prototypical NIU material. I think he is going to put up some big numbers against lesser athletic perimeter defenders which means he should do well in several MVC games. The good thing for Baker is, he probably won't face one team that can levy the kind of perimeter pressure defense against him like Wichita State.

EO is a mathematics major and tutor and his father is an engineer. EO is highly intelligent and analytical. These traits are beneficial regarding X's and O's, but during live action, EO must think dynamically instead of statically and allow the game to come to him. There is no question that he over-thinks at times which leads him to looking lost and retarded at others. When EO allows the game to come to him and focuses on the right things, he can take over a practice and HCGM has alluded to that. EO also has the kind of body that required God to take a break from his daily activities and specifically oversee his genetic engineering. EO is an absolute, perfect basketball specimen that could easily become another Dwight Howard.. physically. Anybody writing EO off or making comments like "having EO on the floor will put us 4 against 5" is overreacting. EO will cause teams to alter their plans when playing Wichita State. EO will have some double-doubles this season. Take it to the bank.

Armstead is a defensive machine and cool as a cucumber when running the offense. I've never seen anything that led me to believe he couldn't shoot the rock. He will be on the floor a lot this year. Armstead is a lot like Cotton in many respects. Athletic, smart, fast, confident, in the right place, and cool. DWill is fast and athletic, but doesn't always seem very smart (that could be due to over-playing at times similar to EO's problem). DWill cannot be in CB's "cool category" until he demonstrates restraint and coooolness.

White will average 6-8 pts a game, 6 rebounds, and not be a defensive liability. White is a smart player with a workman like attitude with a knack for rebounding (that means he works hard at it). We won't blow anybody out of the water with White on the floor, but we won't give up a lead either.

Lufile --- ? He is a beastly, athletic specimen with some skills. If he has heart when the whistle blows, he is going to be a handful.

Cle' is going to be the most prolific new scorer we've seen join a Shocker squad in a long long time. With his height, ball-handling ability, smarts, quickness and athleticism, he is going to quickly be "the man to guard" on our opposition's game plan. He will average double-digits in scoring this year and be a threat from all positions on the court. Shortly into the season he will be renamed "Mr. Highlight Reel". Defensively he will always be a question mark which will suit his game perfectly in the NBA.

Wiggins is going to be very good as a slasher winning the one-on-one battle most times when he penetrates. He still needs to learn the system and won't grab as much attention early on like Cle', but eventually he will be a force and I think has a very good chance to make it to the "show" either after he graduates or very shortly after.

FVV is smooth and ultra-mature for his age. He is staying under the radar thus far and learning the system. He no doubt is overwhelmed coming from HS to college and then studying to take over HCGM's fairly complex system. If we were thin on the perimeter, he would be starting right away. But since we are not, he is going to enjoy the luxury of slowly taking over the reigns.. the perfect situation really. He is going to be rotated in slowly, but depending on injuries (knock on wood), he could be called into action much sooner than expected which doesn't worry me one bit. Four years from now, I fully expect FVV to be spoken of as the point guard that ran some of the best Shocker teams in 40 years.

There is no reason to even discuss Carl Hall. This is his year.


T


...:cool:

[C0|dB|00ded]

Oh, my starting five will be Beast, EO, Armstead, Cle', and Dwill.

And we will get the tip 100% of the time that EO starts.

Out!


T


...:cool:

[Dave Stalwart]

I'm with you cold. I won't write off EO until I have to. Stutz was capable of some embarrassing stuff at times, too... Just in different ways and not too terribly often. EO will be to defense what Stutz was to offense and this will still enable wins, just like Stutz did. He doesn't have to be on offensively at all times if he goes out and gets 4 or 5 blocks as often as Stutz got double figure scoring.

[Dan]

When Aaron Ellis was a junior, it truly was a 4 on 5 situation when he was on the offensive end. Unlike Ellis, EO still has the ability to catch the ball underneath and hammer it home. You can't leave a guy like that unguarded.

[tropicalshox]

I think I'm with Cold and Dan. How did EO look on defense and in rebounding during the scrimmage?

[Ricardo del Rio]

1. Like I said, must be some good recruiting out there.
2. No doubt. This kid can fill it up. There will be several times the Shocks will go on one of those runs at home where the other coach has to powerslam the ref to get his attention because the rivots are being shaken from the foundation from the crowd noise and a series of Derail threes, each one a couple feet further in distance to the previous, will be at the center of those runs.
3. An excellent example of the benefits of a year in D1. Jake was in Early's head at times yesterday, and when that happened, Cle' struggled to stay focused on the job at hand. Frankly, Jake needs to be in the head of his opponent, because Jake can't flash to the high post, catch the ball, pivot, reverse spin dribble baseline, go around Orupke, rise and posterize the 7'0" behemoth with a 2 handed back scratching thunder dunk that changes the molecular structure of the basket support, like Cleanthony did yesterday.
4.You may very well be correct. I can't imagine DWill at full speed....he was lightning fast yesterday. I like that young man, and I hope he's at full strength from game 1.
5. Sad but oh so true.

I don't know which, but the above quote is either John Steinbeck or F. Scott Fitzgerald like.

You have my admiration.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Shockernet plus one public practice equals overreaction most times.

Baker is a fine shooter. In fact he might be the best mid-range shooter I have ever seen -- in practice. But I have seen him get flustered and airball it when some serious DWill/Armstead-type perimeter pressure is put on him. He is stocky and strong, but he isn't exactly the type of player HCGM recruits for his position.. long, athletic, quick. Baker is prototypical NIU material. I think he is going to put up some big numbers against lesser athletic perimeter defenders which means he should do well in several MVC games. The good thing for Baker is, he probably won't face one team that can levy the kind of perimeter pressure defense against him like Wichita State.

EO is a mathematics major and tutor and his father is an engineer. EO is highly intelligent and analytical. These traits are beneficial regarding X's and O's, but during live action, EO must think dynamically instead of statically and allow the game to come to him. There is no question that he over-thinks at times which leads him to looking lost and retarded at others. When EO allows the game to come to him and focuses on the right things, he can take over a practice and HCGM has alluded to that. EO also has the kind of body that required God to take a break from his daily activities and specifically oversee his genetic engineering. EO is an absolute, perfect basketball specimen that could easily become another Dwight Howard.. physically. Anybody writing EO off or making comments like "having EO on the floor will put us 4 against 5" is overreacting. EO will cause teams to alter their plans when playing Wichita State. EO will have some double-doubles this season. Take it to the bank.

Armstead is a defensive machine and cool as a cucumber when running the offense. I've never seen anything that led me to believe he couldn't shoot the rock. He will be on the floor a lot this year. Armstead is a lot like Cotton in many respects. Athletic, smart, fast, confident, in the right place, and cool. DWill is fast and athletic, but doesn't always seem very smart (that could be due to over-playing at times similar to EO's problem). DWill cannot be in CB's "cool category" until he demonstrates restraint and coooolness.

White will average 6-8 pts a game, 6 rebounds, and not be a defensive liability. White is a smart player with a workman like attitude with a knack for rebounding (that means he works hard at it). We won't blow anybody out of the water with White on the floor, but we won't give up a lead either.

Lufile --- ? He is a beastly, athletic specimen with some skills. If he has heart when the whistle blows, he is going to be a handful.

Cle' is going to be the most prolific new scorer we've seen join a Shocker squad in a long long time. With his height, ball-handling ability, smarts, quickness and athleticism, he is going to quickly be "the man to guard" on our opposition's game plan. He will average double-digits in scoring this year and be a threat from all positions on the court. Shortly into the season he will be renamed "Mr. Highlight Reel". Defensively he will always be a question mark which will suit his game perfectly in the NBA.

Wiggins is going to be very good as a slasher winning the one-on-one battle most times when he penetrates. He still needs to learn the system and won't grab as much attention early on like Cle', but eventually he will be a force and I think has a very good chance to make it to the "show" either after he graduates or very shortly after.

FVV is smooth and ultra-mature for his age. He is staying under the radar thus far and learning the system. He no doubt is overwhelmed coming from HS to college and then studying to take over HCGM's fairly complex system. If we were thin on the perimeter, he would be starting right away. But since we are not, he is going to enjoy the luxury of slowly taking over the reigns.. the perfect situation really. He is going to be rotated in slowly, but depending on injuries (knock on wood), he could be called into action much sooner than expected which doesn't worry me one bit. Four years from now, I fully expect FVV to be spoken of as the point guard that ran some of the best Shocker teams in 40 years.

There is no reason to even discuss Carl Hall. This is his year.


T


...:cool:

Has any Mo Valley conference team ever placed five players of the first team all conference team?

Just wondering.

[C0|dB|00ded]

When Aaron Ellis was a junior, it truly was a 4 on 5 situation when he was on the offensive end. Unlike Ellis, EO still has the ability to catch the ball underneath and hammer it home. You can't leave a guy like that unguarded.

And EO has a very polished sky-hook move that finishes at rim level. It is absolutely unguardable when he is on. And I have personally seen him on in practice where defenders are going at him balls out and couldn't stop him. When he gets in a few games and is allowed to play some minutes he is going to cause some damage. And we know what he can do on defense. The only thing that is pissing coach off is he gets a little loose at times and isn't where he is supposed to be. He has to stop thinking about the game and think in the game. "You have to free your mind Neo."

Against the right opponent, EO could have a 20-20 performance.. think Eville, IndySt, etc. Think back to some of those games where Stutz was just having his way with small teams. Most of those baskets were from about 2 feet. EO will be far more dangerous without 2 feet of the basket than Stutz could ever be in his wildest wet dreams. Against some teams in the Valley, the opponents only hope will be to deny EO the ball, that's where a crafty passer like FVV might be called into play to get EO the ball.

If you think EO isn't going to do any damage this year, you need to put down your crack pipe because it's getting hot to the touch.


T


...:cool:

[tropicalshox]

@im4wsu: can you be specific on who the newbies and returners were during the scrimmage?

[im4wsu]

Returners were EO,White, Cotton, Hall, DWill and Armstead. The newbies were everybody else except Lufile, who didn't participate except for shooting drills, pretty much.