Your prediction of the Valley at the end of regular season play

[SpanglerFan316]

When you try to compare Wichita State's roster to Creighton's, it forces the obligatory face palm. The talent level is incomparable.

While I agree that WSU has the best quality depth in the Valley, I think Gregg Marshall would let Doug McDermott, Jackie Carmichael and Colt Ryan play for him. He might ask for more defense but it is a stretch to say that anybody on the Shocker roster is better than these three.

[Cdizzle]

It is difficult to look at all these numbers in a vacuum though. Rating that high in defensive rebounding efficiency is just as likely a result of the opposing offense not needing a second chance, as any other cause. So, too, is CU's relatively poor defensive numbers last year partially related to their own offensive efficiency and the tempo of game they played.

Agree that Doug is a good rebounder.

[another shocker]

It is difficult to look at all these numbers in a vacuum though. Rating that high in defensive rebounding efficiency is just as likely a result of the opposing offense not needing a second chance, as any other cause. So, too, is CU's relatively poor defensive numbers last year partially related to their own offensive efficiency and the tempo of game they played.

Agree that Doug is a good rebounder.

Doug E is a good rebounder, and he's pretty smooth about it, too. We'll have to see what Early can do guarding Doug E Fresh. We've heard good things about Early's defense, long arms, rebounding, shot-blocking etc.. but we shall definitely see, one way or the other.

[The Mad Hatter]

I'd suggest Doug is a little more concerned with getting in position for the rebound rather than blocking shots. Perhaps that's why he was second in the conference in rebounds? I'd never trade being first in the scoring column and second in the rebounding column to have a couple more blocked shots. 23 & 8 is pretty impressive even if there is a donut in the blocks column...

Besides, why worry about blocking shots when you have the conference's best shot blocker standing right next to you in the paint?

The issues with this CU team are with the guards, not the big men. Those two are solid and remarkably consistent.

I'm not saying that Doug isn't a very good scorer or rebounder, but being outdone in blocked shots by every single guard that played with any regularity at WSU is embarrassing for an elite post player.

When you say that Doug was getting in rebounding position, that argument applies primarily to situations where someone other than his man is shooting. If he merely had mediocre block numbers, it would tell you that he is going for rebounds rather than help defense blocks. The fact that he had fewer blocks than some point guards tells you that he was doing virtually nothing to try to stop his own man from scoring. It may not be an ability thing. It may be that he dad would rather have him play zero defense, but stay out of foul trouble. In any case, it reflects a complete absence of any attempt to guard his own man.

[Dave Stalwart]

While I agree that WSU has the best quality depth in the Valley, I think Gregg Marshall would let Doug McDermott, Jackie Carmichael and Colt Ryan play for him. He might ask for more defense but it is a stretch to say that anybody on the Shocker roster is better than these three.

I really like this post spangler because it caused me to actually think about that. Obviously, you are probably right about all of them, but I don't know that Carl Hall can't overshadow Jackie this year. I don't know that a guy like Baker won't shoot it as accurately as Ryan if all the hype is true (Ryan also has the McD-like added benefit that the entire offense goes through him, so we can only go on accuracy). While I doubt that our forwards will score as efficiently as McD, we may have guys who are well rounded enough to produce comparable stats every now and then. Well rounded translates into 16-2 and a title, while the other model translates into 14-4 and a blown title because of a few too many off nights. I'm not sure that Marshall actually would take those guys over who he has. It is probably true, but whether or not we might just be able to outplay them all is the big question and hope this year. What if our boys are better? Wouldn't that be something...

[Dave Stalwart]

Also, I predict that Cold might blast you for even thinking that post :)

[WstateU]

[SpanglerFan316]

Also, I predict that Cold might blast you for even thinking that post :)

If you look at my wording, you see that I was saying that no one Shocker is better than all three of McDermott, Carmichael and Ryan. Even Cold can't disagree with that; who beats Carmichael's defense and scoring by McDermott and Ryan?

[wufan]

I really like this post spangler because it caused me to actually think about that. Obviously, you are probably right about all of them, but I don't know that Carl Hall can't overshadow Jackie this year. I don't know that a guy like Baker won't shoot it as accurately as Ryan if all the hype is true (Ryan also has the McD-like added benefit that the entire offense goes through him, so we can only go on accuracy). While I doubt that our forwards will score as efficiently as McD, we may have guys who are well rounded enough to produce comparable stats every now and then. Well rounded translates into 16-2 and a title, while the other model translates into 14-4 and a blown title because of a few too many off nights. I'm not sure that Marshall actually would take those guys over who he has. It is probably true, but whether or not we might just be able to outplay them all is the big question and hope this year. What if our boys are better? Wouldn't that be something...

What I like about what SpanglerFan posted is that it puts into perspective how good the Shockers might be as a team this year. How you say? Well, when you look at Ill St and Creighton, one of the reasons many have them slotted as 1 and 2 is because they have a good star power at multiple positions (also returning experience). If you look at the Ill St line-up, you can see where Carmichael, Ekey, Wilkins and Brown comprise a match-up advantage against other teams. Not so with the Shockers defense. It is easy to see where any combination of EO/Lufile/Hall/Early/White/Wiggins/Cotton/Williams/Baker could win that match-up, not to mention that we have the advantage at PG. Same goes for CU. No match-up advantage on the Shockers, at least from a height/weight/athleticism/skill stand point. We'll see what type of advantage experience gives our opponents.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Experience is usually the deciding factor ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. But all things aren't equal with respect to the Shockers. There is more talent from top to bottom on this Shocker team since the 80's. Do we have enough talent to overcome our mistakes that will inevitably come by inexperience? I say yes.

When Gregg signed Tekele Cotton everyone said, "so what". We've seen what kind of material TC is made of, and he's now only a sophomore. HCGM knows how to find talent plain and simple. And now he is bringing in the big names. The sky is the limit with our program as long as this man stays in charge.

Carl Hall is the glue this year and there isn't a better man around to lead our team. I personally watched him rip White when he tried to leave practice early. White said sheepishly, "I have class". Mr. Hall allowed him to leave. Hall has the size, experience, and desire to set a great example with all the newcomers. And believe me, "The Beast" is very hungry after last years Creighton'esque type early exit in the NCAA's.


T


...:cool:

[GoShockers89]

I will predict the following:

(T-1) WSU
(T-1) CU
(3) UNI
(4) ISUr
(5) UE
(6) DU
(7) ISUb
(8) MSU
(9) BU
(10) SIU

There's a strong hint of homerism in the above, but I think our front-court will surprise strongly to the upside. Nobody besides CU and ISUr will be able to match up with us down low if everyone stays healthy. I will specifically predict Hall breaks out with a 13 ppg, 8 rpg season and EO steps it up with a 6 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.5 bpg season. White will put together a very nice Kampman-esque campaign this year.

Welcoming criticism, challenges and lavish praise from all comers.

[C0|dB|00ded]

I will predict the following:

(T-1) WSU
(T-1) CU
(3) UNI
(4) ISUr
(5) UE
(6) DU
(7) ISUb
(8) MSU
(9) BU
(10) SIU

There's a strong hint of homerism in the above, but I think our front-court will surprise strongly to the upside. Nobody besides CU and ISUr will be able to match up with us down low if everyone stays healthy. I will specifically predict Hall breaks out with a 13 ppg, 8 rpg season and EO steps it up with a 6 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 2.5 bpg season. White will put together a very nice Kampman-esque campaign this year.

Welcoming criticism, challenges and lavish praise from all comers.

Kampman? *gag*


T


...:cool:

[GoShockers89]

Kampman? *gag*


T


...:cool:

Kampman averaged between 7.1-9.0 ppg and 3.9-5.2 rpg during each of his four seasons at WSU. Jake certainly has more upside than that over the long term, but I'd be pretty pleased with a similar output from his as a sophomore with a lot of seniority ahead of him at his positions.

What kind of numbers exactly do you have in mind for him this year?

[ShockerFever]

Kampman? *gag*


T


...:cool:

Seriously?

What exactly was wrong with Rob Kampman?

Let me guess... he was white?

[kcshocker11]

Hey off topic but could you please explain how Andre the Giant Jr had only 3 blocks in a single season?

Probably jumps like Andre!