Deb Farris: WSU To Look into Bringing Football Back in Next 3-4 Years

[SpanglerFan316]

Mute?

Are we joining the NFL?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19549703

[SubGod22]

College Athletics By The Numbers: A Deeper Look at Profitability - http://sportsologist.com/college-ath...by-the-number/

A recent NCAA report (2004-09) stated that only 14 of the 120 athletic programs in the Football Bowl Subdivision made money. The Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) includes all BCS conferences (PAC 10, SEC, Big 10, Big 12, etc) so odds are your favorite athletic program is losing money. - 12% of college athletic programs are profitable.

Football
There is a lot of discussion about football keeping athletic departments alive. Yes, football is one of only two sports (men’s basketball being the other) that ANY university reported as being profitable. At the same time, however, only 57% of football programs reported being profitable. Thus the other 43% of football programs are still part of the problem.

Point? It goes beyond just the revenues from football. Merchandise, higher enrollment, more donations from a larger alumni base. Football itself may lose money, but it doesn't mean it's a negative impact on the athletic department or the University as a whole.

I'll have to go find some other studies that I've seen others post elsewhere. But there are studies that show more than just 14 schools made money or maybe it went deeper than that and looked at all the other aspects of football that made up for the rest. It's been awhile since I've seen it.

ODU isn't a bad example of what can happen. With our strong basketball program, having football could open the door. Getting enrollment over 20K wouldn't hurt either. But football could help towards accomplishing that. The one thing we can't do much about is our market value. I believe we rank 66th which doesn't jump out as a major positive to some conferences, but it also doesn't kill chances as we're not some remote place with nothing going for it.

Charlotte is a different animal considering it's location and size, but they got a football invite before they ever had a football team and will be joinging CUSA in football in a couple of years. Same with UTSA and to an extent with Texas State. Better markets and located in Texas but they didn't take long to get a chance to move up.

If we come out and say we want to move up at the earliest possible chance and build around that, I could see either CUSA or the MWC giving us a shot. CUSA would be nice as we would have Tulsa and a number of TX schools. MWC would be better from a basketball competition standpoint though. Neither happens without football.

[Kung Wu]

Football
There is a lot of discussion about football keeping athletic departments alive. Yes, football is one of only two sports (men’s basketball being the other) that ANY university reported as being profitable. At the same time, however, only 57% of football programs reported being profitable. Thus the other 43% of football programs are still part of the problem.

From the same article:

"Men’s Basketball

... Once again, however, keep in mind that roughly 57% of men’s basketball programs reported being profitable, so there is a large percentage of men’s basketball programs losing money."

So maybe we should shut down the Men's Basketball program, as it has the exact same chance of continuing to be profitable as a football team will over the long haul?

[KraRam]

Sub, I hear what you are saying, but this article is discussing the whole athletic program, so that would include merchandise and other items. The point being is, it costs a lot of money and not many schools are able to make it work. If we can make it work then more power to us. I am in line for the season tickets.

Kung, not sure why you went that direction. We are not one of the 57% not making it so it is not a discussion. If we were one of the 57% then bring it to the table, but does not apply to the football conversation at all other than a point of reference.

[tw805]

First of all, there are about 500 accounting tricks to make your revenue and expense streams look the way you want them to. It's not like you are a publicly traded company. I flat out refuse to believe that the Duke University basketball program lost nearly 2.1 million dollars in 2010. I think you just ship that revenue number to the "sport - nonspecific" column.

Furthermore, I cannot believe that nearly half of the collegiate athletic departments with FBS football are simply sitting around content to lose millions of dollars every year. No board of trustees would put up with it. It simply has to fall to shifting revenue stream attributions.

Edit:

I was surprised that no one brought up Tulsa, so I went to look them up. They have about 3,000 students, yet have managed to play CUSA football at a .650 winning percentage over the past ten years or so. That should be a comparison that hits close to home. If you look at their books, it would appear they are bleeding money into the ground. But I stumbled on this quote that confirmed the suspicion:

"Back to Tulsa. I spoke with Athletic Director Bubba Cunningham about why his football program appears to be operating at a $3 million deficit. He attributed it to the non-standardized accounting that goes on when schools report to the Department of Education. Cunningham told me that Tulsa reports grants-in-aid from the university as revenue unallocated by sport, whereas other universities may report it as it applies to each sport, which would increase their football revenue. He pointed out this revenue is included in the over $11 million Tulsa reported to the Department of Education as non-allocated revenue."

While some may recoil at the fact this clearly includes a student or governmental subsidy, every single athletic department in the country receives a subsidy. So it's a matter of degree.

[Kung Wu]

Kung, not sure why you went that direction. We are not one of the 57% not making it so it is not a discussion. If we were one of the 57% then bring it to the table, but does not apply to the football conversation at all other than a point of reference.

It's a comparison point. We have the same chance of maintaining a basketball program profitably as we do a football program. They are no different statistically.

And off the cuff I am guessing that they might indeed be correlated, meaning that the programs that have successful football teams probably also have successful basketball teams (and vice versa). I don't know that, it's pure speculation on my part -- but it seems like a reasonable guess.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Financial inflation maybe, but the exact number for the loss in 1986 was $839,000 not $10,000,000. Given the fact that we have literally lost thousands of students a year and hundreds of millions in revenue over the last 26 years this deficit seems small. The President of WSU at that time, Warren Armstrong, did ask the community to raise 3.6 million to continue football but this is still no where near $10,000,000. The numbers getting thrown around are almost comical. "It's going to cost $100,000,000 to start football"! Really, an average NFL payroll per year is in the $100,000,000 range. Will we be getting NFL players?


I apologize for this but of course I know it will be expensive and it will take time but the question Bardo asked is who do you want to beat? Well who does Boise State want to beat? Who does TCU want to beat? Who does Memphis want to beat?

My question is who do we want to be? Boise State? Louisville? Memphis? Syracuse? What is our vision?

I am an optimist. I think it can be done and I think it should be done.

"Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark. In the hopeless swamps of the not quite, the not yet, and the not at all, do not let the hero in your soul perish and leave only frustration for the life you deserved, but never have been able to reach. The world you desire can be won, it exists, it is real, it is possible, it is yours."

Ayn Rand

Question: What is wrong with excellent grammar, excellent compostion, excellent logic, excellent argument, excellent passion and lastly, most excellent inspiration by Ayn Rand?

Answer: Nuttin'.

220px-Ayn_Rand1.jpg

[EB 22]

For the past several years (decades) I have watched the leadership at my alma mater fail to admit that falling enrollment is a problem.
We had over 17,000 students in the fall of 1986 when football was dropped and the population of the six counties of South Central Kansas was around 595,000. Roughly 3% of the population were attending classes at WSU!

Now we have slightly less than 15,000 students and a population of over 725,000 in the same six counties. This is roughly 2% of the population. Or a 33% reduction in market share. While I don’t have the numbers at hand I know WSU enjoyed fairly steady growth commensurate with area population from 1964 to 1986. In addition I would guess that a higher % of the population is attending college now as opposed to 1986. Had we maintained this 3% number we would easily have over 20,000 students enrolled at WSU. Just using the above numbers and multiplying $20,000 annual expense per student times 5,000 missing students represents $100 million annual lost revenue to this community. The students and their dollars went somewhere.

KU, K-State, Emporia State, Pitt State, Ft Hays State, Washburn and nearly all of the JUCO’s and DII schools have grown in step with their respective population base and some have grown dramatically (Ft Hays & Johnson CCC). WSU is the notable exception. Why, in my opinion when football was dropped what little collegiate atmosphere WSU had nearly disappeared. There may and probably are other reasons for the decline: bad marketing, subsidies from Sedgwick County to Butler CCC for tuition, bad basketball and perhaps many others.

I believe football is the key to reviving a true collegiate atmosphere at Wichita State University. Indeed, the last several years have proven that football is the cash cow as far as conferences, realignment and television revenue are concerned. There may be other ways to develop this atmosphere and I hope Dr. Bardo has some ideas here. He has stated he wants more students living on campus and that will certainly help. But how do you get them to "want" to be there. How do you convince the parents that their children will receive a "collegiate experience" and "superb education". Our campus is dull this time of year, in fact many of us are just counting down the days till basketball as we are starved for our Shockers.

In the meantime our competition has a blizzard of PR, marketing and news about their respective institutions. Sports talk shows are buzzing about K-State, Bill Snyder, Charlie Weis, Butler vs Blinn, HS football, Big 12 football and this will continue for several more weeks. I walked in to a Dillons less than two miles from WSU and was bombarded with KU & K-state colors as the main motif for the store...no Shocker gear in sight. (I left).


When Dr. Beggs arrived on campus in the late 90’s one of the first questions I asked is what are we going to do about declining enrollment. His response was; “I’m not sure WSU should try to grow.” I found that alarming and said so.
I believe a strong and growing Wichita State is instrumental to this areas’ economic health. For too long our city and our school have been the poor step child of the state system. “Wichita State is like Denny’s, it’s not a destination but you end up there”. We can train dental assistants at WSU but not dentists. We can train paralegals in Wichita but not lawyers. We can train nurses in Wichita but not Doctors. Why is everything 2nd tier at WSU? This is the largest metro area anchored in this state but all of the top programs are reserved for the KC area. Our love affair with KU & K-State is not good for the City of Wichita.

I’m encouraged that Dr. Bardo might be the agent of change. Everything I have read allows me to believe that he will embrace growth and a mission that is Wichita first. Our choice is clear we can continue to slide in market share, we can continue to watch our alumni send their children to other schools (I'm guilty of this) and not see them return. Or we can choose a new dynamic vision for Wichita. Bravely Onward is a campaign that Fidelity Bank is running and it strikes a chord. I would change it slightly to Bravely Upward.

What is my vision for Wichita State! I turned 61 yesterday and before I turn 70 I would like to go to a football game featuring our Shockers in front of 50,000 screaming fans (half of whom are students) as we qualify for a BCS Bowl Playoff (probably a 16 team tournament by then). I would like to recommend in an unqualified manner that my grandson (hopefully grandchildren by then) become a Shocker(s) and receive an outstanding education while enjoying a true collegiate experience.

Aargh...you would then be right. "The future's so bright that I gotta wear shades".

Go Shockers

Very well put and thought out. I've always that that it's a travesty that the largest city in the state does not have a D1 football team. I understand that if WSU were to start a football team that it may not even start as a D1 program but it's a start.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I know several are tired of my references to now being in Baton Rouge, but I have to tell you that this is not just a University issue.

LSU plays Idaho tomorrow. Idaho. Not Alabama or Florida, IDAHO.

You already cant get a parking spot within a mile of campus as people are staking their spots for tailgating tomorrow. They are visiting the businesses in the area, and the whole town (Metro about size of Wichita) is buzzing. It is bringing people together, uniting them in a common goal to support.

Granted, we might not play at the level LSU does, but I assure you if these fans can get up for IDAHO like they were playing in the BCS Championship game, we can to. And the people coming in to the city to watch the games also will have a big impact economically.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I know several are tired of my references to now being in Baton Rouge, but I have to tell you that this is not just a University issue.

LSU plays Idaho tomorrow. Idaho. Not Alabama or Florida, IDAHO.

You already cant get a parking spot within a mile of campus as people are staking their spots for tailgating tomorrow. They are visiting the businesses in the area, and the whole town (Metro about size of Wichita) is buzzing. It is bringing people together, uniting them in a common goal to support.

Granted, we might not play at the level LSU does, but I assure you if these fans can get up for IDAHO like they were playing in the BCS Championship game, we can to. And the people coming in to the city to watch the games also will have a big impact economically.

Well, maybe. I used to live in Baton Rouge. There are not many college town fans in America as rabid as the Tiger fans. It might be a stretch to say that Wichita fans will emulate Tiger fans.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

Well, maybe. I used to live in Baton Rouge. There are not many college town fans in America as rabid as the Tiger fans. It might be a stretch to say that Wichita fans will emulate Tiger fans.

Did you see Levitt Arena in the 90's?

[SubGod22]

Very well put and thought out. I've always that that it's a travesty that the largest city in the state does not have a D1 football team. I understand that if WSU were to start a football team that it may not even start as a D1 program but it's a start.

We would NEVER be anything less than a DI program

[rrshock]

The least we could be is FCS which is the old D-1AA. We couldn't play D-1 basketball if we didn't.

[Ricardo del Rio]

Did you see Levitt Arena in the 90's?

I don't recall any football games, which were played in Levitt.

[Aargh]

Did you see Levitt Arena in the 90's?

Levitt in the '90's had more people in it than Cessna in the '80's