Welcome - Paul Mills

[Kung Wu]

https://news.yahoo.com/wichita-state...ycsrp_catchall

Abidde is in all four of the top NET trios. Wow!

And ... he's also in four of the top five NET pairings. Also wow!

[Aargh]

Oops - duplicate post.

[shockrah]

Speaking of data....todays article from Eldridge, "How Wichita State basketball plans to use lineup data to find right spot for Ronnie DeGray:

https://news.yahoo.com/wichita-state-basketball-plans-lineup-115748354.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

[ShockTalk]

Ok. Fair enough. I definitely disagree on the last point about him having a better group to start with. As talented as they might have been, IB set them all back with his "style" of play. They essentially had to likely be re-taught to play within an actual system.

If so, I wonder why Turg and GGG teams only could muster 9-19 and 11-20 respectively their whole first year. Of course, this year still has a long way to go, but they are 8-3 early on.

[SubGod22]

Not to sure how much competition PM had in the re-recruitment for KP. I'd guess it would have been mid to low level teams going after him. Was anything published about that?

Nothing published, but I believe it was Taylor that hinted that there were some good P5 schools showing a fair amount of interest.

Some fans like to **** on him, but he has a ton of talent and ability.

[Atxshoxfan]

HCPM did not adopt Pohto. He fought to keep him. He was gone and Mills convinced him to come back. I guess we have forgotten that point.

Not to sure how much competition PM had in the re-recruitment for KP. I'd guess it would have been mid to low level teams going after him. Was anything published about that?

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Didn't forget. We were talking about "cupboards being bare". Not my choice of words, but "Yes" Mills, just like most other new coaches (unless you go by the name of "Penny") have to re-recruit those they want to hold on to. So, a poor choice of word on my part. Pardon me.


My real point being, I feel Mills had a better group of players to start with his recruiting already here than the other new Shocker coaches that were named.

Ok. Fair enough. I definitely disagree on the last point about him having a better group to start with. As talented as they might have been, IB set them all back with his "style" of play. They essentially had to likely be re-taught to play within an actual system.

[ShockTalk]

HCPM did not adopt Pohto. He fought to keep him. He was gone and Mills convinced him to come back. I guess we have forgotten that point.

Didn't forget. We were talking about "cupboards being bare". Not my choice of words, but "Yes" Mills, just like most other new coaches (unless you go by the name of "Penny") have to re-recruit those they want to hold on to. So, a poor choice of word on my part. Pardon me.


My real point being, I feel Mills had a better group of players to start with his recruiting already here than the other new Shocker coaches that were named.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Whoa, whoa. Are some of you saying Mills adopted a bare cupboard? He adopted Rogers, the best player on this year's team who had he been able to play last year, would probably been #1 in minutes and scoring. He adopted Pohto, who started and was 4th in minutes last year. He also has turned Ballard and Abidde into very serviceable players. While I may have had questions about Mills (mostly because I probably had too lofty a hope of who we could hire), he is miles and miles better than Brown.

HCPM did not adopt Pohto. He fought to keep him. He was gone and Mills convinced him to come back. I guess we have forgotten that point.

[shoxlax]

I was waiting for that!

Won’t be the last time we hear it.

[molly jabali]

I was waiting for that!

[molly jabali]

Guess we should bring IB back.

[Kung Wu]

Turg's cupboard: Previous year / first year 9-19 record -- Benton 12 ppg bench SO/ 12.8 ppg JR (considered off the bench as SR), Robinson 4.6 ppg JR/ 8.9 ppg as SR, Mack 3.6 ppg JR/ 6.6 ppg as SR, Davis 3.6 ppp bench SO/ 4.0 ppp JR off the bench, Phillips 3.8 ppg bench JR/ 4.3 ppp starter SR. No Stars here with Benton the best.

GGG's cupboard: Previous year / first year 11-20 record -- Gal 4.0 ppg FR / 9.3 ppg SO, Cooz 11.8 ppg JR / 13.4 ppg SR, Matty B 6.1 ppg Jr / 12.0 ppg SR, Thomason 6.1 ppg JR / 9.3 ppg SR, Durley red-shirt / FR 7.0 ppg

HCPM cupboard: Previous year / first year (so far) 8-3 -- Rogers 14.1 ppg 3rd year SO / 17.3 ppg 4th JR, Bell 11.0 ppg 2nd year FR / 4.0 ppg 3rd year SO / 14.9 ppg 4th year JR, Pohto 8.7 ppg SO / 12.3 ppg JR, Ballard 2.1 ppg 2.1 rpg 3rd year SO / 6.5 ppg 6.9 rpg 4th year JR, Abidde 2.4 ppg FR / 6.2 ppg SO.

Turg's 5 returning players prior year ppg avg total 27.6, 1st year ppg avg total 36.6. Years of prior playing and red-shirt experience: 13 years. Lost 3 of 5 as seniors for the following year.

GGG's 5 returning players prior ppg avg total 28.0, 1st year ppg avg total 51.0. Years of prior playing and red-shirt experience: 11 years.. Lost 3 of 5 as seniors the following year.

HCPM 5 returning players prior ppg avg total 31.3, 1st year ppg avg total 57.2 (so far). Years of prior playing and red-shirt experience: 12 years (counting extra covid year if any). None of these players are lost as seniors.

There is no dis-advantage that Mills has to Turg or 3G in number of experienced players and Mills has the highest returning ppg. Their number of years of experience is also very comparable. Mills does not have to lose anyone in his 2nd year like the other two coaches.

Outstanding comparison!

[ShockHat]

I can’t keep track of what all is happening here. But I do agree that data can’t be the only thing we look at. However, I also agree that probably the best year to compare to is last year, as we have multiple of same players, and this is a way different era with immediate eligibility of transfers compared to Marshall first year.

None of this is gonna be perfect analysis. But i think based on the eye test, we’d say we’re better this year than last. I also think that we’ve affected our data with the down slide these last 3 games or so. We’ve played downright awful, and Mills needs to correct that before this Saturday.

side note - taylor said there were some deaths in the families of several players recently? I don’t know about y’all, but if that happened to me? Basketball would be the last thing I’d care about.

[shock]

Hold up.

Marshall had no point guards outside of 8ish games. Marshall only had Cooz, who rotated to a PB type roll and had a similar impact.