Just how loaded are we??!!

[ShockTalk]

I'm not saying Wiggins doesn't play any SF. I'm saying he spends more time at SG is ideal.

I haven't seen the guys play this summer. But I could still see a scenario with FVV as a RS. I know that's extremely unpopular here though. I'll throw out possible numbers and see where they end up.

PG - Armstead - 20, DWill 10, Cotton 10
SG - DWill 13, Wiggins 15, Cotton 5, Baker 7
SF - Early 23, Wiggins 8, Baker/Wessel 9
PF - Hall 24, White 16
C - Ehimen 20, Lufile 20

These are just general numbers, but for FVV to play, Baker and/or Cotton will be on the bench instead. If Baker can shoot like has been said, I see him getting PT as we don't have a sniper otherwise. We have some good shooters, but nothing like he could provide. Cotton plays tremendous D, is a solid shooter and doesn't turn the ball over. Sitting him is hard for me to believe right now. And I could see the benefit of a RS for FVV to learn and grow and be able to take over once Armstead and DWill graduate opening up a lot of minutes. If you don't see DWill playing much point to free up minutes for FVV, then Cotton and/or Baker get bumped again. I don't see Wessel getting any time based off of last year, but if he's improved enough, I could see him getting some spot minutes at SF if need be. That's the only reason I mentioned his name there. I wouldn't be opposed to him taking a RS this year as he should have done it last season. I see Green RSing for the same reason I'd like to see FVV RS. Too much depth on the outside. Although Green is also supposed to be a tremendous outside shooter. I'm not expecting normal playing time from Mitchell. But I think there's one other guard that's going to be left out of any kind of rotation. Baker already used his RS. I'd like to see one of the others use one and only one makes sense to me. Not sure it would happen, but that's my thinking right now.

I'd break it down to early in the season vs late in the season (assume Green RS):

Early:
PG - Armstead 20, DWill 10, Cotton 5, FVV 5
SG - DWill 20, Wiggins 7, Cotton 9, Baker 4
SF - Early 15, Wiggins 18, Baker/Wessel 7
PF - Hall 15, White 10, Early 15
C - EO 15, Lufile 12, Hall 13

Late:
PG - Armstead 22, DWill 5, FVV 11, Cotton 4
SG - DWill 20, Wiggins 8, Cotton 8, Baker 4
SF - Early 19, Wiggins 17, Baker 4
PF - Hall 18, White 14, Early 8
C - EO 17, Lufile 15, Hall 8

Hall and DWill play a lot of minutes early, until others learn the ropes better. Early picks it all up quickly and also plays a lot of minutes. Later in season, the Shockers depth and improved learning curve allow those 3 to save their legs more. I would be very surprised to see Lufile play 20 minutes early.

White continues to grow and get more minutes at PF, saving Hall's legs and moving Early more to SF. I just don't see FVV as a RS. He will be our starting PG the following year and will need the experience on the floor this year. As he grows, he saves DWill minutes at PG, giving him more rest. As others grow, they may push Wessel to the bench ( I'd sure like to see him RS. As we lose DWill this year and Early, Wiggins the next, he would be a very valuable Shocker the following 2 years after this). Cotton is the big unknown as to minutes. He surprised us last year. If he contiues to surprise this year, he may reduce a few others some minutes, including Wiggins.

This is a very unusual team. Deep in talent and deep in flexibility. If they play 40 minutes of hell on D and fast fury on offense, like I think they can, they will need to save their best players from too many minutes. If it wasn't for the inexperienced playing less early in the season, this team could have no one playing more than 26 minutes per game for the season.

[Ricardo del Rio]

How much is unbridled optimism going for these days? By the pound.

[1972Shocker]

How much is unbridled optimism going for these days? By the pound.

It actually must be pretty cheap considering the amount of supply. But isn't that what off-season's are for? I sure prefer having an abundance of optimisim than the opposite. I'm trying not to get too carried away, but I have to admit we have a lot of intriguing pieces that can lead to big dreams if you assume 3G can successfully put together a team with good chemistry and the right attitude.

[Snapshot9]

I think you are making large assumptions regarding Early and Wiggins. We both know the level of defense in Junior College is no where close to the defense in D-1 ball. For that reason, I see Wessel playing the SF more at first than what you do, because Wessel is a good defensive player, and he isn't bad on offense either, and I expect him to be more 'Graham Hatch like' this season. Even Hall last year had an adjustment period getting used to defense.

Our predictions might be fairly close, but the HCGM always has a few twists in there for lineups, and that's because he will see them everyday in practice, and I can guarantee you the competition for playing time is so strong that the 'lazy' ones will ride the pine.

Cotton is a good guard and does a lot of things right, but he doesn't have enough offense. Williams gets erratic sometimes and needs a little higher BB IQ. We will get to see Armstead for the first time this season, but from past reports he is not that good of a shooter, at least not like Clevin Hannah or Joe Ragland. Baker and FVV are questions marks right now, but both may get more playing time than predicted.

[Capitol Shock II]

I am a Baker believer. I think that he is being underestimated at least on this board.

[forevershockerfan]

Yes, FVV and Baker could get solid minutes. Who knows, they may even get some starts or finishes in games as well. They both sure looked good to me this summer. FVV would get my vote on our best passer and Baker may be out best shooter. Again, just think when these 2 young men are Seniors together. WOW!!!!!!!

[Aargh]

Marshall has said the FVV has too much talent to RS and is physically ready for D1 ball, so he doens't need to RS. FVV won't RS. Williams may see some minutes at PG, but I doubt Cotton gets any minutes there. FVV need the experience for next year. I don't think Cotton showed enough potential at PG last year to get much of a look there with FVV on board. The year after next, we have Holland to back up FVV, so there's not much reason for Cotton to get minutes at PG.

That leaves Williams, Baker, Wiggins, and Cotton to split the minutes at PG - and at SF when a small lineup is used or when Early moves to the 4.

Wessel and Mitchell need to really pop this year or they're the forgotten members of the team. Mitchell is a 6' combo guard with no credentials that compare well to Armstead or VanVleet as PG or to Williams, Wigginns, or Cotton at WG. Wessel has a good work ethic and is a hrd-nosed player, but he's against taller, more athletic guys with better credentials. Early and Wiggins seem to be the obvious choices at SF. After that, I can't put Wessel ahead of either Williams or Baker in a guard-oriented lineup.

I know a lot of people want the local kid to do good, but he's behind a lot of talent and athleticism.

[ABC]

y

How much is unbridled optimism going for these days? By the pound.

The Shocker World has changed since LD Swanson was the best player at 1,2,3 and 4. And maybe 5.

[Ricardo del Rio]

y

The Shocker World has changed since LD Swanson was the best player at 1,2,3 and 4. And maybe 5.

L.D., the gamer.

[wu_shizzle]

Knowing Marshall, playing time will be based on defensive match-ups first and offensive ability second.

If FVV is getting more playing than Cotton, Fred is locking people down.

[Good News]

I think you are making large assumptions regarding Early and Wiggins. We both know the level of defense in Junior College is no where close to the defense in D-1 ball. For that reason, I see Wessel playing the SF more at first than what you do, because Wessel is a good defensive player, and he isn't bad on offense either, and I expect him to be more 'Graham Hatch like' this season. Even Hall last year had an adjustment period getting used to defense.

Our predictions might be fairly close, but the HCGM always has a few twists in there for lineups, and that's because he will see them everyday in practice, and I can guarantee you the competition for playing time is so strong that the 'lazy' ones will ride the pine.

Cotton is a good guard and does a lot of things right, but he doesn't have enough offense. Williams gets erratic sometimes and needs a little higher BB IQ. We will get to see Armstead for the first time this season, but from past reports he is not that good of a shooter, at least not like Clevin Hannah or Joe Ragland. Baker and FVV are questions marks right now, but both may get more playing time than predicted.

I think Cotton has way more offensive ability than he gets credit for - it simply wasn't needed last year with 5 seniors that needed touches on that end. He did what he needed to do to get minutes, and in my opinion played WAY older than his age in regard to discipline and decision-making. I don't recall anywhere near the number of freshman mistakes with him that I did with Demetric or other guards that played as freshman. He might be the second most interesting subplot for me this coming season, after EO.

Somebody tell Billy Ray and Louis to forget the frozen concentrated orange juice and corner the market in Cotton futures while it's cheap...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24_8wRnPqAM&feature=player_detailpage#t=17s

[WuDrWu]

The more I observe, and the more I analyze, the more wide my range of possibilities become.

In Coach Marshall's 5 seasons at the helm, his teams have shown an amazing amount of structure and discipline. Those traits do not appear overnight. To be successful in a way many of us desire or even demand, there will have to be significant contribution from a variety of sources that have little to no experience with the expectations of our staff.

But perhaps this group of players, with their combination of talent, both athletically and skill wise, will thrive in an environment having less structure. Who knows? Certainly not me....

As with most things in life, it isn't going to be black and white. There are going to be shades of gray. Somewhere in the middle will be a balance where the coaches optimize the output of the players with a mix of structure and creativity, held in place with chemistry. It's their job to find that hoops nirvana.

If we take the approach of year 1 I doubt we'll be very good at all. Year 5? Ok, but not great. I believe we have to learn and adapt this year, deviating slightly from the things that have yielded so much success recently.....the question is, will we?

[Dan]

Cotton doesn't get enough credit because he's a 6'3" shooting guard that plays the position like a power forward. The guy is amazingly efficient on the offensive end and can bang around underneath if needed. His defensive abilities will get him on the court but his offense is pretty good given more opportunities to make plays.

[jcdshocker]

Last Year |---TOTAL---| |---3-PTS---|
## Player GP-GS Min--Avg FG-FGA Pct 3FG-FGA Pct FT-FTA

32 COTTON, Tekele..... 32-0 316 9.9 33-65 .508 8-23 .348 18-28 .643

Who said Tekele is not offensive oriented. 50% from the field. 35% from 3. 65% from the stripe (not good). He is very efficient with his time on the court. I am not saying he is a great shooter, but other than Joe last year and Ben coming on strong at the end, who else shot better overall? This guy can play. Do not under estimate his ability. I am not sure he plays much PG, but he will see as much time on the floor as Fred or Ron if not for the other intangibles he brings. I.E. Defense, not turning the ball over, rebounding. He may be the next Graham Hatch.

[Dave Stalwart]

If any newcomer beats cotton out, we are in fantastic shape. Cotton was a stealing machine and helped one of the best Shocker teams in recent years as a freshman. We have been focused on our recruiting class this year because it was stellar, but they still have to come in here and figure out how to take minutes away from guys we already know will be good. Maybe we could shift our focus for a little while back to the experience we brig back. Our veterans of the system will be much improved after the offseason you know. I'm not sure that hall, white, williams, cotton and armstead wouldn't be a lineup that could beat a lot of teams. Plus orukpe baker mitchell and wessel in some form, and we already look decently solid to me. People there is meat on the bone. We may not have to deviate to an updated system at the coaching level. It will be no cake walk to the starting lineup. I don't care if fvv early and wiggins are from out of this world. They still have to beat some solid guys who already know about how we do it with hcgm. Maybe our new guys better just come ready!