2022-23 Coaches Shows

[ventichai]

We've already seen what IB can do with RC, DD, MU and ETN. What more is there to see?

this

[AZ Shocker]

We've already seen what IB can do with RC, DD, MU and ETN. What more is there to see?

Agree and very true. Then the clear choice is to invest in the immediate buyout and hire a new coach asap. Go Beard!

[Shockm]

We have two groups of fans here on Shockernet.

Group 1: Totally sold out worried about our reputation because of WHO we hire as a Coach, even if we also have a reputation as a Top Ranked Team.
Group 2: Totally sold out worried about our reputation because we are known as a Top 150 Bad Team.

Maybe there is a Group 3 who are undecided about which way to go.

[Dan]

We have two groups of fans here on Shockernet.

Group 1: Totally sold out worried about our reputation because of WHO we hire as a Coach, even if we also have a reputation as a Top Ranked Team.
Group 2: Totally sold out worried about our reputation because we are known as a Top 150 Bad Team.

Maybe there is a Group 3 who are undecided about which way to go.

There may be a Group 3 that are worried about the WSU's ability to make a move due to financial concerns, and are resigned that we cannot do anything at this time.

[CBB_Fan]

We have two groups of fans here on Shockernet.

Group 1: Totally sold out worried about our reputation because of WHO we hire as a Coach, even if we also have a reputation as a Top Ranked Team.
Group 2: Totally sold out worried about our reputation because we are known as a Top 150 Bad Team.

Maybe there is a Group 3 who are undecided about which way to go.

As arguably a member of Group 1, I simply don't think a school in our position can become a consistent national powerhouse in today's era without satisfying both boosters and recruits. If we focus just on satisfying Baby Boomer boosters, we'll get a fiery personality that might give us a few competitive years before scandals and recruiting blacklists waylay us. And if we focus just on satisfying zoomer recruits, we may not have the right coach in charge nor the money to pay for NIL deals.

If the goal is sustained excellence, we can't aim for one or the other and we can't really accept scandals.

[Ashockalypse]

As arguably a member of Group 1, I simply don't think a school in our position can become a consistent national powerhouse in today's era without satisfying both boosters and recruits. If we focus just on satisfying Baby Boomer boosters, we'll get a fiery personality that might give us a few competitive years before scandals and recruiting blacklists waylay us. And if we focus just on satisfying zoomer recruits, we may not have the right coach in charge nor the money to pay for NIL deals.

If the goal is sustained excellence, we can't aim for one or the other and we can't really accept scandals.

So redefine it as what it really was: not a scandal that was hyped up into a frenzy.

[Shockm]

If the NIL could roll out $200k a player for us, we could hire a HS coach and they would win.

I disagree Lax. You and others continue to say how much things have changed so we can no longer compete in the new era. We just need to pay players lots of money and then we can compete. You need lots of money to pay 4 and 5 Star players to compete in the modern era. Things may be different but not as much as you say.

Houston, Boise State, St Mary’s, San Diego State, and about 10 other teams, that are currently ranked in the Top 45, prove this not to be true. But a current coach can’t continue to turn over a new team every year. You have to return a strong nucleus and add players to it.

AND Players are still looking for coaches who’ll coach them hard just like before. Coaches like Gregg, Ralph, and Gene will still be able to compete in today’s era. But IB can’t, and will continue to be a 50% coach just as he would have been 50 years ago.

[Stickboy46]

I disagree Lax. You and others continue to say how much things have changed so we can no longer compete in the new era. We just need to pay players lots of money and then we can compete. You need lots of money to pay 4 and 5 Star players to compete in the modern era. Things may be different but not as much as you say.

Houston, Boise State, St Mary’s, San Diego State, and about 10 other teams, that are currently ranked in the Top 45, prove this not to be true. But a current coach can’t continue to turn over a new team every year. You have to return a strong nucleus and add players to it.

AND Players are still looking for coaches who’ll coach them hard just like before. Coaches like Gregg, Ralph, and Gene will still be able to compete in today’s era. But IB can’t, and will continue to be a 50% coach just as he would have been 50 years ago.

I'm not sold fully on your last statement. I agree 3G has a better chance of succeeding than HCIB at this point. Primarily because he doesn't have the personality to drive boosters to drop a ton of money to fund recruits. 3G did.. but also had the personality that would potentially drive away good players in this "I get yelled at and I can transfer without waiting" phase. I guess how true your statement is really is based on how you define "compete". If we were to rehire 3G .. i would have zero expectation of reaching the same highs we did in the mid 2010s .. but it would be better than what we are seeing right now.

[Dan]

UH has a pretty strong NIL program. Mattress Mack alone contributed seven figures, not sure the exact amount. When I went to the UH game last weekend, they were advertising how to donate to the NIL on their big video boards. It just seems more organized than what WSU currently has.

[WuDrWu]

I have a love hate relationship with Mattress Mack.

[Shockm]

I'm not sold fully on your last statement. I agree 3G has a better chance of succeeding than HCIB at this point. Primarily because he doesn't have the personality to drive boosters to drop a ton of money to fund recruits. 3G did.. but also had the personality that would potentially drive away good players in this "I get yelled at and I can transfer without waiting" phase. I guess how true your statement is really is based on how you define "compete". If we were to rehire 3G .. i would have zero expectation of reaching the same highs we did in the mid 2010s .. but it would be better than what we are seeing right now.

I defined "COMPETE" for you in my 2nd statement. We can consistently compete with Boise State, St Mary’s, San Diego State, and about 10 other teams, that are currently ranked in the Top 45.

Yes, Gregg, Ralph, and Gene would drive some players away because they were all "hard asses" and difficult to play for. But they also would bring in tough minded players (all 3 were good recruiters) who want to win, compete, and be "Coached" by a "tough" minded coach who will push them to their limits. Gregg (and you mentioned re-hiring Gregg, not me) may have needed to make adjustments, and go back to the coach he was 10 years or so earlier in 2008-2015, but many really good players liked playing for him, and defended him to the end, and he always was a "hard ass". The key is that a coach needs to return 7 or so key players and not have to begin anew every year.


Not a part of your discussion, but I believe that NIL in current form is unsustainable.

[Shockm]

UH has a pretty strong NIL program. Mattress Mack alone contributed seven figures, not sure the exact amount. When I went to the UH game last weekend, they were advertising how to donate to the NIL on their big video boards. It just seems more organized than what WSU currently has.

Football will dominate the Houston NIL program, and most of the NIL programs (KSU for example) for the Power 5, especially when Houston moves into the Big 12.

[Stickboy46]

I defined "COMPETE" for you in my 2nd statement. We can consistently compete with Boise State, St Mary’s, San Diego State, and about 10 other teams, that are currently ranked in the Top 45.

Yes, Gregg, Ralph, and Gene would drive some players away because they were all "hard asses" and difficult to play for. But they also would bring in tough minded players (all 3 were good recruiters) who want to win, compete, and be "Coached" by a "tough" minded coach who will push them to their limits. Gregg (and you mentioned re-hiring Gregg, not me) may have needed to make adjustments, and go back to the coach he was 10 years or so earlier in 2008-2015, but many really good players liked playing for him, and defended him to the end, and he always was a "hard ass". The key is that a coach needs to return 7 or so key players and not have to begin anew every year.


Not a part of your discussion, but I believe that NIL in current form is unsustainable.

That's fair .... I agree he could bring us Top 45 ish (which is bubble territory) most years. I just struggle to think he could get us back to Top 20 ish without major changes to his style/personality (which he may or may not capable of)

[Dan]

I have a love hate relationship with Mattress Mack.

he's good for the city and loves Houston sports

[Shockm]

That's fair .... I agree he could bring us Top 45 ish (which is bubble territory) most years. I just struggle to think he could get us back to Top 20 ish without major changes to his style/personality (which he may or may not capable of)

So it sounds from this statement as if IB has the right personality to bring us the players that move us into the Top 20 on occasion. IB, not only doesn't fit with the Big Donors, but I don't think players actually respect him either. After all, he is a Player's Coach, and player's like him. Right?

So we will see if you are right, and many key players from our current team return. Kenny Pohto, and Jaykwon Walton are players he has to return if we are to move ahead from another 500 season.

You, and I disagree that a coach like Marshall doesn't still fit, and couldn't get us into the Top 20 on occasion. With the 2019-20 team, we didn't lack talent, we lacked chemistry. With the current transfer rules, Marshall would be much more likely to make a few tweaks and get us back.