Melvion Flanagan Is A Shocker Walkon

[Dan]

Porter haas tightened up his game in recent play and cut down on his turnovers. He does need to be a better facilitator to be an elite PG. He may have the best mid range game of anyone we’ve had int he past 20 years though.

[Kung Wu]

Porter doesn't elevate the team in any way?

[BostonWu]

We'll never know how good Porter could have been under the current regime. Would love to have seen what he could do under GM.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

GTFOH Drama Queen. Name one person on this board that said he's not a good player. You're trying a little too hard, Ok? He did nothing the other night but was maybe headed for a slightly better game than he had against Alcorn State; WSU's worst home loss, to some on this board, you included, in the last 40 years. Maybe it was. Or when he ball hogged against the Dons, but hey, he did have 9 boards in that game.

You're trying pump sunshine up someone's, anyone's, a** for some reason. He's not above criticism. He doesn't elevate the team in any way, and gets careless with the ball a little too much, i.e. unforced errors. Being an elite point guard isn't all about stats (dish to the hot man, anyone?). But that's a conversation that would be wasted on you apparently, just going by your other posts concerning the position. You still have a lot to learn Son. Just study my posts and you will...

You come off like an unintelligent phognetter rather than an educated Shockernetter. Hey, wait a minute...

And I’m the drama queen…?

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

We'll never know how good Porter could have been under the current regime. Would love to have seen what he could do under GM.

True. He’s doing all this with a staff who doesn’t know how to develop talent. The ceiling could have been limitless under GM and staff. It really is a shame.

[shock]

GTFOH Drama Queen. Name one person on this board that said he's not a good player. You're trying a little too hard, Ok? He did nothing the other night but was maybe headed for a slightly better game than he had against Alcorn State; WSU's worst home loss, to some on this board, you included, in the last 40 years. Maybe it was. Or when he ball hogged against the Dons, but hey, he did have 9 boards in that game.

You're trying pump sunshine up someone's, anyone's, a** for some reason. He's not above criticism. He doesn't elevate the team in any way, and gets careless with the ball a little too much, i.e. unforced errors. Being an elite point guard isn't all about stats (dish to the hot man, anyone?). But that's a conversation that would be wasted on you apparently, just going by your other posts concerning the position. You still have a lot to learn Son. Just study my posts and you will...

You come off like an unintelligent phognetter rather than an educated Shockernetter. Hey, wait a minute...

[Aargh]

Porter is a very good basketball player. His primary skills allow him to be a player who "can get by" as at PG. He's not a playmaking PG by his nature, but he's doing some of that.

GM had a lot of that type of PG's after FVV, and none of them worked out or developed. They all left. Sherfield didn't progress in his one year here, but he did progress at his next two schools. Reaves was used as a SG when Landry was used as the PG. Reaves turned out to be an AA PG at Oklahoma and went into the NBA. Shamet went into the NBA as a SG.

I watched every AAU game FVV played between his Jr and Sr years in HS. He played against 5 of the top-rated PG's in AAU ball and clowned every one of them. His drives to the basket, drives and dishes to a post, drives and dishes to the perimeter, and ability to stroke 3's if his team needed points were all there before he got to WSU.

GGG got the best out of FVV during FVV's time at WSU, but FVV's game was developed prior to his playing at WSU and his game exploded after he got to the NBA Undrafted to NBA All Star to the franchise player for his team is not an endorsement of how he progressed in college.

Rian Holland, Noah Fernandez, and Grant Sherfield did quite well after they left WSU. I'm not buying the argument that GGG would have done better with CP than he's doing now. The evidence over many years doesn't support that hypothesis.

Marshall was a winner and IB definitely is not. The Marshall era is over. There hasn't been the slightest rumor of another school considering Marshall for a coaching vacancy. That could change in April, but it looks like NOBODY wants Marshall's baggage on their coaching staff. Comparing what Marshall could have done with a player to what any current WSU coach could do with a player is a great way for any next coach to consider what the fanbase will have against them going into the job.

Our next coach (hopefully in April) isn't going to want to be compared to GGG. That could easily drive away the top candidates. Jans may have been willing to follow GGG, but not many prospective hires want to follow a coach with Marshall's record of success.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Porter is a very good basketball player. His primary skills allow him to be a player who "can get by" as at PG. He's not a playmaking PG by his nature, but he's doing some of that.

GM had a lot of that type of PG's after FVV, and none of them worked out or developed. They all left. Sherfield didn't progress in his one year here, but he did progress at his next two schools. Reaves was used as a SG when Landry was used as the PG. Reaves turned out to be an AA PG at Oklahoma and went into the NBA. Shamet went into the NBA as a SG.

I watched every AAU game FVV played between his Jr and Sr years in HS. He played against 5 of the top-rated PG's in AAU ball and clowned every one of them. His drives to the basket, drives and dishes to a post, drives and dishes to the perimeter, and ability to stroke 3's if his team needed points were all there before he got to WSU.

GGG got the best out of FVV during FVV's time at WSU, but FVV's game was developed prior to his playing at WSU and his game exploded after he got to the NBA Undrafted to NBA All Star to the franchise player for his team is not an endorsement of how he progressed in college.

Rian Holland, Noah Fernandez, and Grant Sherfield did quite well after they left WSU. I'm not buying the argument that GGG would have done better with CP than he's doing now. The evidence over many years doesn't support that hypothesis.

Marshall was a winner and IB definitely is not. The Marshall era is over. There hasn't been the slightest rumor of another school considering Marshall for a coaching vacancy. That could change in April, but it looks like NOBODY wants Marshall's baggage on their coaching staff. Comparing what Marshall could have done with a player to what any current WSU coach could do with a player is a great way for any next coach to consider what the fanbase will have against them going into the job.

Our next coach (hopefully in April) isn't going to want to be compared to GGG. That could easily drive away the top candidates. Jans may have been willing to follow GGG, but not many prospective hires want to follow a coach with Marshall's record of success.

I personally wouldn’t want a coach who would shy away from that challenge. It means they don’t have what it takes. I’d be ok with them passing on the job.

Marshall and his staff developed several NBA quality guards that you failed to mention also. Who do think would be able to get more out of Porter, Greg or IB?

[Aargh]

I personally wouldn’t want a coach who would shy away from that challenge. It means they don’t have what it takes. I’d be ok with them passing on the job.

Marshall and his staff developed several NBA quality guards that you failed to mention also. Who do think would be able to get more out of Porter, Greg or IB?

I understand not wanting a coach who wouldn't want to follow Marshall's record, but that could eliminate some quality candidates. Replacing Marshall is going to be an incredible challenge.

Who are these guards that Marshall developed that I didn't mention? Toure Murry and Gal Mekel? As I recall both of them got to the NBA (briefly) after playing pro ball after leaving WSU.

[Kel Varnsen]

Porter is a very good basketball player. His primary skills allow him to be a player who "can get by" as at PG. He's not a playmaking PG by his nature, but he's doing some of that.

GM had a lot of that type of PG's after FVV, and none of them worked out or developed. They all left. Sherfield didn't progress in his one year here, but he did progress at his next two schools. Reaves was used as a SG when Landry was used as the PG. Reaves turned out to be an AA PG at Oklahoma and went into the NBA. Shamet went into the NBA as a SG.

I watched every AAU game FVV played between his Jr and Sr years in HS. He played against 5 of the top-rated PG's in AAU ball and clowned every one of them. His drives to the basket, drives and dishes to a post, drives and dishes to the perimeter, and ability to stroke 3's if his team needed points were all there before he got to WSU.

GGG got the best out of FVV during FVV's time at WSU, but FVV's game was developed prior to his playing at WSU and his game exploded after he got to the NBA Undrafted to NBA All Star to the franchise player for his team is not an endorsement of how he progressed in college.

Rian Holland, Noah Fernandez, and Grant Sherfield did quite well after they left WSU. I'm not buying the argument that GGG would have done better with CP than he's doing now. The evidence over many years doesn't support that hypothesis.

Marshall was a winner and IB definitely is not. The Marshall era is over. There hasn't been the slightest rumor of another school considering Marshall for a coaching vacancy. That could change in April, but it looks like NOBODY wants Marshall's baggage on their coaching staff. Comparing what Marshall could have done with a player to what any current WSU coach could do with a player is a great way for any next coach to consider what the fanbase will have against them going into the job.

I mostly agree here, with the caveat (and you kind of stated this) that GGG did prepare a lot of his players for pro careers and get a lot out of them while they were here. Ramon Clemente, Zach Brown, JT Durley, Shaq Morris, Markis McDuffie come to mind.

One thing I'd like to go back to look at more is how much freedom he gave players on offense. I tend to think that he gave players less freedom which may have limited their development, but he still had teams that were outstanding offensively, particularly in 2012, 2014, and 2018. And players may have been afraid to take more chances and try things because they knew GGG would give them a death stare afterwards. Give and take, I suppose.

As far as Porter goes, yeah, he and Walton are our best players and it's not close. Interestingly enough, per Torvik, Flanagan is third on the team in PORPAGATU (points over replacement player per adjusted game at that usage). But I'm not sure given the roster and makeup of the team that some other coach (Marshall or otherwise) would be getting much more out of him.

torvikwsustats.jpg

Our next coach (hopefully in April) isn't going to want to be compared to GGG. That could easily drive away the top candidates. Jans may have been willing to follow GGG, but not many prospective hires want to follow a coach with Marshall's record of success.

I think this may hurt in the context of NIL and the new way of college athletics, but maybe not so much when it comes to following GGG's success. Too early to tell and I guess we'll find out whenever that coaching search commences.

[Dan]

Hannah, Ragland, Armstead and FVV was our best string of PGs. After that, we never really had a true PG at those levels.

[1972Shocker]

Porter has tightened up his game in recent play and cut down on his turnovers. He does need to be a better facilitator to be an elite PG. He may have the best mid range game of anyone we’ve had int he past 20 years though.

To be a good facilitator requires a couple of things CP has no control over. A decent offensive scheme and teammates that can convert on a consistent basis.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

To be a good facilitator requires a couple of things CP has no control over. A decent offensive scheme and teammates that can convert on a consistent basis.

This is sooo right on point. I don’t know how many times I have seen great passes for sure fire baskets hit rock hands or guys miss bunnies. The rest of the roster outside of a few guys is not carrying their weight offensively.

Contrast this roster with what Fred had and it is shockingly lacking!

[Aargh]

I don't recall seeing much of this from CP, but I've seen a lot of passes that players have to reach down below their knees to catch. By the time they catch the ball and get into a shooting position, the D has closed on them and they have to rush the shot, dribble to try to create open space, or just pass it to the perimeter. 1/2 a second can be the difference between taking an open shot or taking a contested shot.

[Dan]

I don't recall seeing much of this from CP, but I've seen a lot of passes that players have to reach down below their knees to catch. By the time they catch the ball and get into a shooting position, the D has closed on them and they have to rush the shot, dribble to try to create open space, or just pass it to the perimeter. 1/2 a second can be the difference between taking an open shot or taking a contested shot.

Mostly from our 3rd string PG, James Rojas