Some of this loss boils down to.....

[Rlh04d]

It came down to Stutz not making shots. When he didn't play well this year, we lost. Sure, he had off nights and we still pulled it out. But he never had a strong game in a shocker loss. His second to last miss, a chance to dunk it because the VCU player didn't want to foul out, and he shorts it basically sums it all up.

Now, I say it came down to that, but you win as a team and you lose as a team. So this loss isn't on any one guy. So remember that before you throw someone under the bus who was a big reason we even saw the dance floor this year.

He had an extremely strong game in our loss to Drake, actually ... 27 points. The loss to Temple he had a moderately strong game at 13 points and around 60% shooting on 2's.

[thenightwatchman]

If WSU loses to a lower seed is it choking or is that term only referred to other teams?

[jdmee]

What is interesting is that statistically, in this match up....the numbers look a little funny

Field Goal Percentage Defense...Shocks at #19....VCU not in top 50.

But...Scoring Defense....VCU #20 and the Shocks not in top 50.

I would think these two stats would track together.

Not necessarily, The VCU defense does not give up a lot of shots. They get a lot of steals and turn overs. However, when the offense does get a shot they make high percentage shots.

The WSU defense limits the high percentage shots, however you will get more chances.

[jocoshock]

What it boils down to is that a lot of fans cannot accept the fact that there are A LOT of good teams all across the country in conferences no better than the VALLEY (MEAC for example) that haven't had any trouble winning against high seeds this year.

WSU got a very tough draw in its first game. This happens to some team every year. This year it happened to us. At least we got to the Dance. Maybe we should leave the Valley... or maybe some fans should find another school to root for that won't ever break their heart. Kansas, Duke, North Carolina? They have all been beaten by lower seeded non-BCS schools in the NCAA tourney.. UCLA, Arizona? Where are they this year?

Mizzou, Duke, UNLV, Temple - high seeds that also went down (note the two 5 seeds going down now for 12 of the last 13 years)... All of those teams are in conferences that are supposed to be better than the Valley.

non-BCS teams will always have their (more than) fair share of challenges just to get to the dance, let alone win. That's what makes S16, Elite8, and Final four runs all the more impressive when they get them.

Time to get over it. It you are going to look back, look back at the 27 wins or the past four years and the 98 wins that got us here, and then start thinking about the future. We've built one hell of a good foundation, but the building is far from over... and that is a good thing, not a bad thing...

[ShockRef]

Very interesting indeed.... not the kind of stat that you would expect from a coach that apparently (according to some) can't coach in big games...

"We didn't adjust soon enough and that's on me. I guess we should have adjusted sooner." HCGM


At least he has the 'Nads to admit the obvious and what some on here refuse to acknowledge or confirm.


It's called accountability and if the buck stops at your desk and the performance does not meet the expectations, stand up and take responsibility.

He has and for that, all the credit.


However, for those who still refuse to acknowledge, you can remove your head from the sand.

[shoxlax]

There's plenty of blame to go around. Coaches, players, VCU's defense. Hell, I will take some of the blame for watching the game at Chili's, a phenomenon I will never repeat.

[SHOXAAC]

There's plenty of blame to go around. Coaches, players, VCU's defense. Hell, I will take some of the blame for watching the game at Chili's, a phenomenon I will never repeat.

You've mentioned Chili's in a not so positive light twice now...what happened? Was the beer warm, the server cold?

[SHOXAAC]

Look...some on this FAN board get their panties in a bunch just because some of us who are just as avid Shocker fans make observations about Marshall that don't fit the "sunshine" outlook.

It's not because we want Marshall to take the USC, Illinois, UCLA, blah, blah, blah jobs. I have no interest in Marshall going anywhere, but 21st and Hillside. He has imperfections...just like me or anyone else on this board. To ignore those imperfections is fine for the "sunshine" group. That's fine, but I and others choose to make observational comments not intended to make him less than a man by any means. Take it for what it is...observational comments.

In general, here are my observations about the coach I don't want going anywhere:

1. He is a superior recruiter.
2. He is a great front-man...fun and entertaining in the public eye.
3. In general a good PR tool for the University...he shows passion for WSU, stakeholders, players, support staff, fans, etc...
4. He could handle "in the moment" situations better, and that's where his passion sometimes gets the better of him (but I will take those situations because I appreciate passionate people).
He is not in the class of great tactitioners (probably not spelled correctly). He is ok, not great, with X/O's and in-game coaching, but getting better.
5. He can be chippy with the media, even though sometimes they deserve it.
6. He appears to have a luke-warm to icy relationship with most officials.
7. Appears to be a great family man.

Again, I like him, but he does put himself in some "learning" opportunities on occasion. I don't need a degree in "have you won over 300 college basketball games," like some on this board apparently require. We use the term "eye test" in sports to make observations...that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Go Marshall!
Go SHOX!
Let's get ready to inflict some Shocker pain next season.

[another shocker]

There's plenty of blame to go around. Coaches, players, VCU's defense. Hell, I will take some of the blame for watching the game at Chili's, a phenomenon I will never repeat.

'Watched Stanford-Wichita State at Chili's. Never again.

[shocker2012]

@SHOXMVC:... I thought everything you said was reasonable and things I have observed as well. Marshall is a great coach and I by no means want him to leave, but at the same time he isnt perfect and with any coach (as with any player) there are always things that can be improved upon, such the the things you talked about in #4. HE even admitted that he should have adjusted earlier against VCU and didnt...thats a class act in my opinion by admitting he had some fault in the loss. And its something to learn from for next time.

[shoxlax]

You've mentioned Chili's in a not so positive light twice now...what happened? Was the beer warm, the server cold?

All that was good and the waiter was incredible.

We lost.

[SHOXAAC]

All that was good and the waiter was incredible.

We lost.

Then I will support my buddy shoxlax and never frequent Chili's again either...at least until I get hungry again...oh look, it's almost lunch time...see ya at Chili's. lol

[jocoshock]

Have no idea what was going through Garrett's mind when he missed that last close shot, but I wondered if he was fearing another flop/charge call and short armed everything? It sure looked like it after watching it again.

Very interesting observation. I will go even further and wonder if this has not been on his mind since the Creighton game. His awesome string of 20 point double doubles came to a halt right around that game. He had productive games after that, but not to the same degree. The Davidson game was somewhat similar and coach said he had some jammed fingers, but that doesn't explain the rest of the season... I thought he has been timid taking to the hole for some time. Not a criticism, just an observation..

[RamTough]

What is interesting is that statistically, in this match up....the numbers look a little funny

Field Goal Percentage Defense...Shocks at #19....VCU not in top 50.

But...Scoring Defense....VCU #20 and the Shocks not in top 50.

I would think these two stats would track together.

Hello Shocker fans,

I came over here to say it was a good game and you should be proud of your team. VCU was a tough draw as we had only lost 1 game since January 8th and that was on a running 35 footer at the buzzer. You have a good team and next year you should be in the mix to be Valley champs. Whoever wins the game between us next November will have a strong win on their resume. A couple of points about this thread.... most of the Colonial isn't athletic enough for VCU either. I don't think it was a Valley problem. We have now had three consecutive coaches that are young and play a style that alot of athletic kids want to play in. You guys have very good players and can't control how the rest of the Valley recruits anyway.

As to the seemingly contradictary statistics listed above from a VCU perspective it does not surprise me. VCU plays a gambling style which generates alot of turnovers but also leads to alot of easy buckets. The philosophy being you cannot miss a shot you don't take. so if VCU generates about 10-12 more turnovers a game than playing a more conventional defense you can live with some easy buckets.

In the Wichita State case my guess is since you score so much the other team speeds the pace up to keep up with you and gets more possessions thus more points.

[shockmonster]

Ram Tough - I think that you're wrong that the Shockers weren't athletic enough. During the first half, they didn't have many turnovers, they just were taken out of their offense and weren't hitting the shots they were taking. If you noticed, the Shockers athleticism and press in the second half brought them back. It took the Shockers too long to learn how to attack the Rams because they rarely see pressing teams in the Valley. Teams try to slow down the game in our league to beat the Shockers. But you were a 3 pt. shot better on Thursday evening. Good luck in the tournament.