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  • STL Officiating

    After all that has been said, printed and debated in who knows how many bars, the following is a non-biased take on what was observed in person and after breaking down the tape.

    Sure the usual yappers on here will fire away, but it's expected.


    I was as urinated off as I can remember after Saturday's game. I was disappointed in a veteran crew, of which had one of the most respected officials in the business.

    After breaking down the film, it was clear they did not recognize or handle the tactics and type of play that was occurring.

    Specifically, HCTJ knew he could not compete with WSU's depth on the front line. He was already down a key player (Threloff) and did not have horses to compete.
    He saw what happened to InSU on Friday and decided to take a chance on being aggressive and catching the officials off guard.

    It worked.


    It started with Moore's illegal screen on Murry (which Self had his head turned and missed) and continued with Wilkins thuggery in the paint with Stutz.

    The whole crew was caught off guard and I'm sure the post game tape break down was an interesting event.


    HCGM was extremely frustrated and although justified to an extent, needs to handle a situation such as this with better composure.

    Quite simply, there is away for a coach to get his point across without getting personal.


    Case in point - On the play where DK hustled to tip the ball off of an ISU player, Self was over ruled by Higgins.

    John did not handle it well, running in & blowing his whistle 3 times and vigorously pointing in the other direction.
    He 'Big Timed" Self, who was obviously a bit embarrassed by the miss.

    As Self walked to the spot, HCGM chimed in "How could you miss that?"

    That was not the time for that particular quip and I'm sure Self didn't forget it.


    There is always a game with a game between officials & coaches. The key is to keep it between each and not bring others into it.

    A smile, a nod or even a wink would have been much more appropriate and kept the exchange between HCGM & Self.



    Am I saying the BS call against Hall later on was a direct result of this exchange?

    Nope.

    Was it possible?

    Anything is possible.


    More later in the much anticipated Notes, Quotes & Billygoats.

    That is all.
    Above all, make the right call.

  • #2
    Interpetation.............."the refs sucked"

    Comment


    • #3
      Good post ShockRef.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for your take. It was very well thought out and logical.

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        • #5
          That was the exact exchange I saw where it did look like HCGM looked like he was asking Self how COULD you miss that call? I thought Higgins also did his part in showing up Self by being so demonstrative. The Shocks could have overcome this whole thing if they would have valued the ball more and made just one more shot instead of putting their heads down and jacking up what I thought were poor percentage shots. By the same token if just one of their shots didn't go in its a whole different out come and we are talking about how we were able to overcome adversity once again. I do believe the Shocks will not let this happen to them again this year.

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          • #6
            "Case in point - On the play where DK hustled to tip the ball off of an ISU player, Self was over ruled by Higgins.

            John did not handle it well, running in & blowing his whistle 3 times and vigorously pointing in the other direction.
            He 'Big Timed" Self, who was obviously a bit embarrassed by the miss."

            The WSU crowd that was sitting in my area saw this and the look on Self's face and said we are in trouble. I think the ref was more pissed at Higgins for overturning his bad call. The very next play Toure drove to the basket with the ISU player all over him, tripped and lost the ball. Self called TM for traveling while carrying the ISU player. Just another one of those plays. I do not think that Self composes himself very well for an official. There was another point in the game that one of the other referrees made a call and Higgins was just shaking his head. I am curious as to which referees made foul calls on each team.

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            • #7
              One thing I've thought about before:
              When half of the arena is screaming insults at the refs after EVERY call (which, as Shocker fans, we were), then how can we expect a ref to go 100% unbiased? It's got to have a little affect on them, right?
              "Say it slowly and savor it..."
              Nothing worse than sCUm/sKUm

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by wsushockerdude View Post
                One thing I've thought about before:
                When half of the arena is screaming insults at the refs after EVERY call (which, as Shocker fans, we were), then how can we expect a ref to go 100% unbiased? It's got to have a little affect on them, right?
                Wrong
                Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
                RIP Guy Always A Shocker
                Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
                ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
                Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
                Save Shocker Sports - A rallying cry

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by wsushockerdude View Post
                  One thing I've thought about before:
                  When half of the arena is screaming insults at the refs after EVERY call (which, as Shocker fans, we were), then how can we expect a ref to go 100% unbiased? It's got to have a little affect on them, right?
                  Wrong - twice.

                  SR
                  Above all, make the right call.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Refs miss calls, coaches miss calls and fans miss calls. That's never going to change and is part of the game. Are there personality issues involved? Absolutely. These are all human beings and subject to the associated failings. I am not suggesting any conspiracy, but for anyone to suggest that certain coaches don't get along with certain referees, you're wrong. My biggest problem with the officiating Saturday was that the beating up on Garrett went to a whole other level. All year long I've watched him be yanked, pulled, pushed and grabbed to the point where he ended up with a back injury. Saturday it escalated and the refs failed to take charge. That's on them.

                    On a side note. Listening to the radio this morning I hear how these refs are monitored, evaluated and graded. The MVC Supervisor of Officials and the local evaluator were at the Creighton game on 12/31. The local guy left at halftime. He was at one game the rest of the season. So, unless they moved seats or assigned the job to someone else, there was no evaluation going on in Wichita.

                    Lastly, we could have played better Saturday. We are a better team than we showed that day. I am confident the better team will show up next Thursday or Friday. I'm ready to put last weekend behind and enjoy the next ride.
                    Where oh where is our T. Boone Pickens.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In some instances referees and coaches don't get along. Do any of you remember how it was when Smithson was coach? There were definitely a couple of referees that he didn't get along with and vice versa. I'm sure the same goes for Marshall.

                      I believe self is probably one that doesn't get along with him.

                      And on the crowd note, if a referee is letting the crowd influence their calls then they aren't doing their job. Especially if they are talking to the crowd.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ShockRef View Post
                        Wrong - twice.

                        SR
                        SR, but aren't you implying that Self was biased b/c of the jab Marshall took at him?

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ABC View Post
                          SR, but aren't you implying that Self was biased b/c of the jab Marshall took at him?
                          ABC,

                          No, I am responding to the assertion that fan reaction influences an official to alter a call or the manner in which the game is officiated.

                          If you read the original post, I stated I didn't think the quip from Marshall influenced the foul call on Hall.

                          Possible?

                          Yes, but then again anything is possible.
                          Above all, make the right call.

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                          • #14
                            The refs kept blowing the game but Marshall should of just gave them a wink and also not mentioned it in the post game interview, right.
                            In the fast lane

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                            • #15
                              There is a right and a wrong way to communicate with an official Trop.

                              GM chose a wrong one.

                              GM should have went through the proper channels after the game to communicate his concerns regarding the officials.

                              GM chose the wrong one again.


                              You do a nice job monitoring the recruiting forums.

                              Stick to it.

                              SR
                              Above all, make the right call.

                              Comment

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