What price would you be willing to pay for success?

[Ashockalypse]

A friend and I have been bitching for three years now about how self and the buzzards are never going to get punished when he was caught red handed. There case is apparently never going to get decided. Tonight we just laughed and decided that non P-5 schools should not even hide it, they should just openly write checks to top ten recruits. Then let’s watch the cheaters point fingers. There’s almost no distinction anymore. The lines are so blurred. NIL, realignment, transfer portal, one and done, G-league payments all are just a total onslaught on college sports as we have known them. We are really just pretending we have fair competition anymore, The funny thing about it is the Alabama’s in football and the Dukes in basketball pump their chests out more than ever when they beat up the less powerful. Reminds me of the feeling I get when the chicken hawks host emporia state in front of a full AFH and yell airball when the hornets miss the rim. Proud bullies with a stacked deck.

[shoxlax]

Doomsday scenario:

In five years there will be developmental leagues and academies that will suck up the top HS talent. The rest will go to the Blue Bloods who will play each other and the NBA Academies. The rest of the college basketball world will look like what college tennis and golf is-occasional pro prospects but not the top tier like the other organizations. College baseball could easily become the 2nd most popular men’s sport. All in on Wedgie.

[ventichai]

Been lurking for a bit now, but I have a question I don’t believe has been directly addressed as of yet:

In your opinion, are the glory days of WSU hoops done? I understand it’s hard to say with HCIB thus far/the impact COVID has had on finances/current athletic department leadership/NIL implications…but is the ship “heading towards the cliffs edge”?

My personal view is that it seems improbable that based on:
a) the support this program has;
b) the facilities the university maintains;
c) the legacy the program has achieved that the program will just wither away and become “irrelevant”.

I think this, and next season, will ultimately tell us all we need to know about the long-term trajectory of what the expectations should be. What do you guys think?

[WstateU]

Been lurking for a bit now, but I have a question I don’t believe has been directly addressed as of yet:

In your opinion, are the glory days of WSU hoops done? I understand it’s hard to say with HCIB thus far/the impact COVID has had on finances/current athletic department leadership/NIL implications…but is the ship “heading towards the cliffs edge”?

My personal view is that it seems improbable that based on:
a) the support this program has;
b) the facilities the university maintains;
c) the legacy the program has achieved that the program will just wither away and become “irrelevant”.

I think this, and next season, will ultimately tell us all we need to know about the long-term trajectory of what the expectations should be. What do you guys think?

I’ve lived a long life and have learned to stay the course and keep a positive outlook even when rough waters are approaching. We’ve hit some rough sea recently and I pray the ‘captain’ avoids the iceberg. If not, I’ll still be one of the violinists playing as the ship goes down. Ross would be spinning in his grave if I ever gave up on the Shockers.

[AZ Shocker]

The "Glory Days of Shocker Basketball" are absolutely 100% NOT even close to being over.

We're in a space and time right now that it only feels that's whats happening right now.

S$$T happens and S##T happens. We're in a rutt. But the pride and glory of this program will always move forward and compete at the HIGHEST LEVEL.

We support...we grow...and we will WIN again!!!

Houston...I think you "may" have a problem this weekend.

[SubGod22]

Been lurking for a bit now, but I have a question I don’t believe has been directly addressed as of yet:

In your opinion, are the glory days of WSU hoops done? I understand it’s hard to say with HCIB thus far/the impact COVID has had on finances/current athletic department leadership/NIL implications…but is the ship “heading towards the cliffs edge”?

My personal view is that it seems improbable that based on:
a) the support this program has;
b) the facilities the university maintains;
c) the legacy the program has achieved that the program will just wither away and become “irrelevant”.

I think this, and next season, will ultimately tell us all we need to know about the long-term trajectory of what the expectations should be. What do you guys think?

I don't see colleges splitting based on P5 nonsense. That's been a right around the corner scenario for 30 years or so.

With the lack of NIL rules, it's hard to say where that goes. But I also don't think it is going to end things. It may help some teams land some kids, but for the most part, I don't see a ton of change happening. If it does, UCLA or USC will dominate pretty much everything. If that happens, I'll change my mind.

The support for this program is and will always be there. I believe sellout crowds will return, or at least close to it, when there's a program the fans feel they can rally behind. Like it or not, this team and coaching staff have not been very inspirational. The play has been bad and boring and left a lot of people with a bleak outlook on at least this years team. That's a poor combo to get fans to spend their time and money on you. Yes, Covid has had some impact on some people, but I think it's really just an excuse for the most part. Everyone who wants to be vaxxed is vaxxed. Those who don't want to be aren't overly concerned with the dangers that may be present. Those that are concerned, vaxxed or not, aren't going to show up but that's not a high percentage of people.

Our facilities are good, but not great. But there's not much that can be done there unless the athletic department can inspire the big money types to invest in upgrades. That's probably a hard sell right now and I get the feeling a few of the big dogs aren't overly thrilled with things currently within the department/program and are probably less likely to give much right now. There has to be vision and a plan in place to make it worth it. Schaus was great with that aspect and a lot of what we have can be traced back to him either directly or indirectly. Boatright I don't think can pull that off.

The legacy of the program is there and will continue to be. Even if IB never figures it out and is here for three or four years, this program is capable of pulling in a good coach or another up and comer like 3G was that could right the ship. Wichita still loves basketball and the University. Fans will return. Fans will rally around a team and program they feel gives them a reason to be excited and support. That's generally how life works. Good or bad, if there's a reason to fight for something or believe in something, people will be there. We've had huge crowds for teams that didn't win a lot of games, but they gave us reason to believe. Reason to support them and be there for them as the worked through those struggles. There's something about the current state of the program that I believe leaves a lot of people not feeling that.

Wins are better than losses, but there's much more to it than that. It's how you go about those wins and losses. How you react to them. How you perform in them. Nobody expects perfection, but they expect more than what we're currently seeing I believe. So yes, the support is and will be there in the future for whoever the coach is, if things around the program change to where they can inspire such support once again. Earn such support. Simply putting on the Wichita State jersey or collecting a Wichita State paycheck doesn't guarantee that. Hopefully IB figures things out and we get back to that sooner rather than later. But I can't fault people for having their doubts.

[ventichai]

[ventichai]

Texas A&M to spend 30 million in NIL to attract their 2022 FB recruiting class

[WuTheOne]

I was a supporter of hiring IB. I was wrong. Neither the fans, the players, or the boosters seem to be inspired by IB and it's showing in every aspect of all three groups. Uninspired play, attendance, and donor money.

As soon as the department can afford it, IB will need to be replaced, unless he has some epiphany and figures out how to use personnel in an effective way. The fact that WSU was able to pay Marshall upwards of $3 mill should entice some interesting applicants. One of the first questions those applicants will ask is how much NIL money is lined up for the players in the program.

We will need an AD by then who can line up some attractive NIL deals. I don't think DB is that guy.

The recruiting forum has a lot of 2* guys and only a couple of prospects who look like potential difference makers. As IB's contrac nears its' end, recruiting will be more difficult. I'm expecting a major rebuild is in store for the next coach

I'm sticking with the glass half full for now, but that glass is sitting outside in 100 degree weather with a Kansas wind blowing. The evaporation rate is going to be mighty high unless there's some way to put a lid on that glass. I'm afraid DB and IB will drink the water before it's taken away from them. In other words take the paycheck as long as it's available and do nothing to solve the problem.

[Kel Varnsen]

Interesting discussions here...I would like to revisit this conversation as we have hired Paul Mills now and I know similar discussions are being had within other threads.

Here's where I stand.

We have to get into the mud to attract players in this day and age, and utilize NIL well. I think a lot of people are coming around to this realization overall. It's not something I like, but it's reality. And if you want Wichita State to be relevant in college basketball, you'd better get comfortable with it.

It's somewhat analogous to teams within the English FA (that's the governing body for all of soccer within England) wanting to be supporter-owned. It's certainly a model where the club can survive, and where the local population can take pride in. But it's not ever going to get the team to the EPL (top division) or even the Championship (second division). You're probably looking at operating in the English third or fourth division at best. But if you let some oil magnate from a gulf state come in and inject loads of cash into the club, you have a chance at competing at the highest level.

I'm fine with that even if it means that we pay loads of money for players with NIL. I personally don't care. I want Wichita State to be successful and for my degree to be worth more over time. It would be harder to take pride in our basketball program if we keep on slipping down the rungs of the college basketball ladder.

We still need a coach and an infrastructure in place that supports that, and identifies potential four-year players who can develop over time. Three of the four one seeds (Kansas, Purdue, and Houston) seem to do that well. I don't know Alabama's team well enough. But that might not last...Villanova was a beacon for that under Jay Wright, but he's gone now. North Carolina, for what you can say about them, didn't have many one-and-done players under Roy Williams compared to teams like Duke and Kentucky.

Adapt or die.

[shocker43]

Interesting discussions here...I would like to revisit this conversation as we have hired Paul Mills now and I know similar discussions are being had within other threads.

Here's where I stand.

We have to get into the mud to attract players in this day and age, and utilize NIL well. I think a lot of people are coming around to this realization overall. It's not something I like, but it's reality. And if you want Wichita State to be relevant in college basketball, you'd better get comfortable with it.

It's somewhat analogous to teams within the English FA (that's the governing body for all of soccer within England) wanting to be supporter-owned. It's certainly a model where the club can survive, and where the local population can take pride in. But it's not ever going to get the team to the EPL (top division) or even the Championship (second division). You're probably looking at operating in the English third or fourth division at best. But if you let some oil magnate from a gulf state come in and inject loads of cash into the club, you have a chance at competing at the highest level.

I'm fine with that even if it means that we pay loads of money for players with NIL. I personally don't care. I want Wichita State to be successful and for my degree to be worth more over time. It would be harder to take pride in our basketball program if we keep on slipping down the rungs of the college basketball ladder.

We still need a coach and an infrastructure in place that supports that, and identifies potential four-year players who can develop over time. Three of the four one seeds (Kansas, Purdue, and Houston) seem to do that well. I don't know Alabama's team well enough. But that might not last...Villanova was a beacon for that under Jay Wright, but he's gone now. North Carolina, for what you can say about them, didn't have many one-and-done players under Roy Williams compared to teams like Duke and Kentucky.

Adapt or die.

What do you consider "getting into the mud"? Do you think what we do now qualifies as that (collective), or the Miami approach of a super rich dude paying kids huge amounts of money?

FWIW, I don't think I have an issue with either, but I can't be the super rich dude.

[SubGod22]

I'm still waiting to win the lottery

[Kel Varnsen]

What do you consider "getting into the mud"? Do you think what we do now qualifies as that (collective), or the Miami approach of a super rich dude paying kids huge amounts of money?

FWIW, I don't think I have an issue with either, but I can't be the super rich dude.

Yeah, I mean, I'm fine with both. I'm not the super rich dude either. Like Sub, waiting to win the lottery.

[ShockerInKC]

If you can't beat them (by punishing and regulating them into ethical conformity), might as well join them (because that is apparently never going to happen, it appears).

That's what I told my tax accountant.

[Topshock]

My preference would be everyone playing fairly by the old rules, but it was never that way.

I am definitely fine with both. For the first time we are allowed to be on a level playing field with the schools that have been doing this all along illegally. I see it as a huge opportunity for Wichita State.