Blame Game

[another shocker]

I only have a problem with your first paragraph.

You can believe me or not but this is the truth. There were numerous witnesses to the "Shaq incident" I personally talked to one about 2 hours after it happened. We made the comment right then that if GM was anyplace but Wichita he would be fired immediately.

yawn.. that's all good and well. but why is wichita state looking so bad lately? or: why is it so hard to think pass first?

[AZ Shocker]

if GM was anyplace but Wichita he would be fired immediately.

See I'm not so sure I agree with that. I mean let's just say hypothetically speaking would Mike Krzyzewski, Roy Williams, Jay Wright or even Bill Self if accused of the same things be fired??? I mean I could be wrong...but I don't think they would.

[shox7]

I will jump in to the fray; A few things that bother me about the direction of the program are the development of the existing players. Question, is DD a better ball handler today than he was 4 years ago as a freshman? I would argue he is not. Is MU a better passer today than he was as freshman? I still haven’t seen him be able to pass out of double team. Does MU do a better job of not traveling today than he did 4 years ago as a freshmen. I think we all agree he is making the same mistakes dribbling as he did as a frosh. Does Etienne do a better job today of making the players around him better, than he did 3 years ago? I don’t see it. Does Ricky less likely to play out of control today than he did a year ago? I don’t think so. As an assistant coach before he became head coach wouldn’t IB have had some responsibility in improving players weaknesses? Compare the examples above of MU to the improvement Stutz made, or Shaq made, or the improvement Landry made to the improvement Dex has made. Compare the Etienne to the improvement Conner made. I would argue Conner was closer to an NBA player when he left than Etienne is. Just this guys concern with player development.

[Stickboy46]

Completely embarrassed with the way the season ended last year and it's only getting worse this year. Not sure how anyone can actually defend this pathetic product being put forth.

The ending that was basically the same as the end of the 2017-2018 year you mean? Losing in the second round of the AAC tourney and then losing to a 13 seed while we had an NBA guard on the roster? Were you calling for the coaches job then ?

[ShockTalk]

Believe me there were A LOT of quality coaches out there who would have taken the job and WSU had the money to hire them.

Having said that, I don't see any way IB couldn't have been the choice at the time. It pains me to say it but the University was in a no win situation if they didn't give him a shot. He got that shot and it is not going well at this point.

That, plus one thing. I think posters here know I'm a Jans fan. However, had someone else been hired, not only would it have been a press hay-day about not hiring Brown for several reasons, but most of the team would have probably left. The new incoming coach may have also had recruiting difficulties due to the situation.

I have no problems with the hiring of Brown. I do have big time problems with the structure of the contract.

[BOBB]

Yeah, because why would anyone hire a Coach who just won the AAC less than a year ago(something the prior Coach never did)?

Why don't some of you Prima Donna's wait 'til the season is over before you come on here and incessantly whine and ***** about getting rid of a Coach who is 25-10, that with a team that is smaller than your average Valley team. WSU just lost to a team that probably has 3 1st round NBA draft picks. Maybe 4 (but I doubt that). And we all know the AAC is just loaded with 1st round draft picks, so we can expect more games like that. Oh, wait...

whiners.jpg

Provided I stick with basketball forums I almost always agree with ShockingButTrue.

[ShockerFever]

The ending that was basically the same as the end of the 2017-2018 year you mean? Losing in the second round of the AAC tourney and then losing to a 13 seed while we had an NBA guard on the roster? Were you calling for the coaches job then ?

Dear God, you’re weird.

[Horn28Clem30]

The ending that was basically the same as the end of the 2017-2018 year you mean? Losing in the second round of the AAC tourney and then losing to a 13 seed while we had an NBA guard on the roster? Were you calling for the coaches job then ?

Did that coach have multiple tourney appearances, sweet sixteens and a final four to his name and probably the best coach in school history? No one would ever call for his job you twit

[WuTheOne]

Who said the budget was $1.5? I don’t remember anyone official making that case.

I just did simple math. Marshall was getting something like $3.2 - $3.5, and he negotiated $1.7 for several years. I can't imagine donors raising their contributions for replacing the coach they supported, so $3.2 - $1.7 leaves $1.5 The ability to offer $1.5 is actually optimistic.

Moser signed for $2.8 with OU with a contract that bumps him to $4.5 by 2027. A coach who couldn't succeed at Illinois State was out of WSU's financial reach.

Chris Jans was never going to happen - for more reasons than ADDB and he didn't get along. Jans wasn't going to replace Marshall under the circumstances that led to the vacancy. ADDB probably could have gotten Bob Richey or the coach from Grand Canyon, but the criticism, wailing, and gnashing of teeth on SN would be worse than what we've got now.

Any coaching hire that would have resulted in the transfer of Marshall's recruits (Porter, Jackson, Council, Jenkins) would have been met with absolute hatred on SN. IB is struggling to get the potential from those guys. We might want to remember that Marshall struggled to get Cousinard's potential on the court when PJ was a Sr.

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

I just did simple math. Marshall was getting something like $3.2 - $3.5, and he negotiated $1.7 for several years. I can't imagine donors raising their contributions for replacing the coach they supported, so $3.2 - $1.7 leaves $1.5 The ability to offer $1.5 js actually optimistic.

Moser signed for $2.8 with OU with a contract that bumps him to $4.5 by 2027. A coach who couldn't succeed at Illinois State was out of WSU's financial reach.

So you were the one that said $1.5 million, not WSU. Ok, got it. I would be willing to bet if the right coach came along money would not have been an issue, but HCIB caught lightning in a bottle and made that a moot point.

Just to entertain your math for a minute (even though it isn't based in anything from the University) the buyout was $7,750,000 paid over 6 years. That's ~$1,292,000 annually. That would put the money available under your assumption at ~$1,908,000 to ~$2,208,000.

[Stickboy46]

Did that coach have multiple tourney appearances, sweet sixteens and a final four to his name and probably the best coach in school history? No one would ever call for his job you twit

You twit? Stay classy.

You know the point I made and that's why you had to resort to that.

[Horn28Clem30]

You twit? Stay classy.

You know the point I made and that's why you had to resort to that.

You actually made no point. Absolutely no one was ever going to call for his job

[WuTheOne]

So you were the one that said $1.5 million, not WSU. Ok, got it. I would be willing to bet if the right coach came along money would not have been an issue, but HCIB caught lightning in a bottle and made that a moot point.

Just to entertain your math for a minute (even though it isn't based in anything from the University) the buyout was $7,750,000 paid over 6 years. That's ~$1,292,000 annually. That would put the money available under your assumption at ~$1,908,000 to ~$2,208,000.

If you think the right coach "was going to come along" and follow Marshall, you are delusional. The program was already on a downward trajectory from the F4 and S16 (the Baker, VanVleet, and Cotton years). Then there were the massive transfers which indicated a total roster rebuild was going to be needed. Losing 5 Sr's one year and 7 transfers the next year is a red flag for a coaching hire. Then a new coach is going to risk massive roster turnover from the already rebuilt roster.

Following Marshall in that situation would be like following Mangino at KU. It's a great way to get out of the coaching business- or to become an assistant for the rest of your career. Under the circumstances, IB is probably the best ADDB could have done.

Instead of comparing IB to fHCGggM, we should be comparing IB to other coaches that could have conceivably been hired to replace Marshall. I think IB comes out really well if that's the comparison. I don't think IB is coming out well as a HC at this point, but I'm skeptical that ADDB could have found anyone willing to take the job who could have done better.

[Arizona Shocker]

Blame? Gone are the days of MTXE and Play Angry. Now it’s Instagram feeds, players reading social media praise and hate, crazy ass parents, NIL opportunities, transfer portal looming, the 3 ball, recruiting players with mental issues, Covid, Athletic Dept is broke, younger fans less inclined to drop the tech and experience in person, older fan base aging out, and the always changing conference realignment saga.

I just want to watch the Shox shoot the ball above 50% and play tenacious D (not the group). Is that too much to ask?

You think we are alone? Try being a Husker football fan like my wife and listen to them groan about their supposed savior Scott Frost sucking and how they should be back to their glory days.

[AZ Shocker]

Blame? Gone are the days of MTXE and Play Angry. Now it’s Instagram feeds, players reading social media praise and hate, crazy ass parents, NIL opportunities, transfer portal looming, the 3 ball, recruiting players with mental issues, Covid, Athletic Dept is broke, younger fans less inclined to drop the tech and experience in person, older fan base aging out, and the always changing conference realignment saga.

I just want to watch the Shox shoot the ball above 50% and play tenacious D (not the group). Is that too much to ask?

You think we are alone? Try being a Husker football fan like my wife and listen to them groan about their supposed savior Scott Frost sucking and how they should be back to their glory days.

Solid!