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2021 TBT

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  • Zach is a pretty elite defender. The only thing that has kept him from the NBA, in my opinion, is his ability to consistently knock down the three ball, which appears to still be an issue.
    Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
    RIP Guy Always A Shocker
    Downsizing Government - Part of the Cato Institute
    Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
    Cato Institute - A libertarian take on the issues
    ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
    Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
    MVCFans Alternative, Where ALL Voices Can Be Heard - Come join the party

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    • Originally posted by proshox View Post
      HCGM has his insane legacy, but WSU fans showing up to unorthodox basketball events is baked in the cake.
      You're whole statement is correct, but to add to GM's contribution,

      The F4, Elite 8's, and Sweet 16's during GM's tenure kept the money flowing from wealthy community boosters (who weren't necessarily WSU boosters), season tickets sold out, gave us the opportunity to move up in conferences, and allowed our innovative late University President (the wealth) to build world renown business buildings, hotels, restaurants, and create a national following that we haven't known since the 60's, and maybe for a brief time in the 80's.

      While some of this occurred during other era's, it wasn't to the extent of the past 12 years. While some people grew tired of GM's personality (relentlessness), and it may have changed some in a negative manner, over his tenure at WSU, no one had a problem with his relentlessness during the first 7 or 8 years, nor doubted his commitment to the program or city. His contribution should not be minimized, and most of us know he deserves his accolades.


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      • Originally posted by ShockerDropOut View Post

        My daughter was taking video of the play. I watched it several times. It was a good call.
        That call could have gone either way. I don't argue (NOW) with the referee's judgement, because we won. The only problem that I still have with the call, is that USUALLY at that juncture of the game (I mean without the Elam Ending that is a last second call), referees swallow their whistle, and allow the players to determine the outcome. Usually allowing the players the opportunity to determine the outcome is the right call, therefore, the referee blew it imo.

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        • Originally posted by Shockm View Post

          That call could have gone either way. I don't argue (NOW) with the referee's judgement, because we won. The only problem that I still have with the call, is that USUALLY at that juncture of the game (I mean without the Elam Ending that is a last second call), referees swallow their whistle, and allow the players to determine the outcome. Usually allowing the players the opportunity to determine the outcome is the right call, therefore, the referee blew it imo.
          It's 100% without question a charge. You want the referees to swallow their whistles to let a team win the game on a clear violation? That makes absolutely zero sense.

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          • Originally posted by pie n eye View Post
            Incredible game. So glad we are able to host these games in the dog days of summer.

            Can anyone who watched on TV comment on the first Frankamp game winner they waived off due to a “charge”?
            100% charge.

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            • Originally posted by Horn28Clem30 View Post

              It's 100% without question a charge. You want the referees to swallow their whistles to let a team win the game on a clear violation? That makes absolutely zero sense.
              They usually do on a bang bang call like that. Have you watched the Tournament. During this game, they didn't call many fouls that they could have called, and some of them were obvious. That is using their judgement. Don't be naïve. Referees do it all the time.

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              • Originally posted by Shockm View Post

                That call could have gone either way. I don't argue (NOW) with the referee's judgement, because we won. The only problem that I still have with the call, is that USUALLY at that juncture of the game (I mean without the Elam Ending that is a last second call), referees swallow their whistle, and allow the players to determine the outcome. Usually allowing the players the opportunity to determine the outcome is the right call, therefore, the referee blew it imo.
                Wrong...the players did decide it by getting in a solid defensive position to draw a foul that was called correctly.

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                • Originally posted by SHOXAAC View Post

                  100% charge.
                  He was leaning back as he moved into him. There was movement, and that same call is not called the same everytime.

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                  • I've never understood the argument of let the players decide the game. If they foul, they foul. And that's deciding the outcome of the game. If you don't call a foul a foul just because it's at the end of the game, the ref has taken it out of the players hands.

                    Infinity Art Glass - Fantastic local artist and Shocker fan
                    RIP Guy Always A Shocker
                    Downsizing Government - Part of the Cato Institute
                    Carpenter Place - A blessing to many young girls/women
                    Cato Institute - A libertarian take on the issues
                    ICT S.O.S - Great local cause fighting against human trafficking
                    Wartick Insurance Agency - Saved me money with more coverage.
                    MVCFans Alternative, Where ALL Voices Can Be Heard - Come join the party

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                    • I'm an Elam ending convert after these three games. In each case, basketball was played to the end of the game. I have watched many college games where that isn't the case, and the last two minutes of the game stretched into an eternity of timeouts and free throws that doesn't resemble the rest of the game at all. This isn't quite the same in the NBA, which can still stretch out games but doesn't have the 1-and-1 that really forces the issue at this level. That said I recognize that buzzer beaters, while rare, are some of the coolest and most memorable moments in all of sports and that it isn't the same.

                      This game shows however that the Elam ending can deliver incredible moments itself. There is a tension in the ending that isn't present when you have the ball up 1 late in a college game. At any point, your failure to score can give your opponent the chance to win. A late in the clock scenario in college basketball can give only a few scant chances for the game to flip on its head. This game had what felt like a dozen as each team had a chance to land the finishing blow. The balancing act on the knife's edge made this particularly memorable.

                      The only change I'd make to the Elam ending is a requirement to win by 2. As another poster mentioned early, informal basketball figured this out long ago. This could extend games a bit, but it adds back in some of the tactical scenarios that taking out a game clock loses. And fundamentally, I think it will give less games decided on a foul call and needing to make a single FT to win.

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                      • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post
                        I've never understood the argument of let the players decide the game. If they foul, they foul. And that's deciding the outcome of the game. If you don't call a foul a foul just because it's at the end of the game, the ref has taken it out of the players hands.
                        Then why weren't more fouls called when there were obvious fouls earlier? Did the referees decide the outcome in those cases?

                        The last game, the lack of an OBVIOUS charging call on the other team almost decided the game. This call was NOT obvious, and many on this board don't agree even after seeing the replay many times. That's when referees need to not enter the picture.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by SubGod22 View Post
                          I've never understood the argument of let the players decide the game. If they foul, they foul. And that's deciding the outcome of the game. If you don't call a foul a foul just because it's at the end of the game, the ref has taken it out of the players hands.
                          It was a tough call and initially I thought the defender slid underneath CF. However, watching it again I agreed with the call. The official (who needs to lay off the cheeseburgers) was in perfect position to see the whole play and make the call. CF went 'through the body' as we like to say and committed the foul.
                          And yes, you make the call at every point in the game and not just look the other way and swallow the whistle. A foul is a foul is a foul!
                          As mentioned this crew, as the previous two games, had a rough game based on the physicality that was permitted. Some assaults were called, others let go. I watched one sequence where Rashard set some of the most illegal screens in the history of the game and... no whistles. The stuff going on in the paint was full out hand to hand combat.
                          But overall a fun and entertaining game for fans to watch and enjoy.

                          That is all.
                          Above all, make the right call.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Shockm View Post

                            They usually do on a bang bang call like that. Have you watched the Tournament. During this game, they didn't call many fouls that they could have called, and some of them were obvious. That is using their judgement. Don't be naïve. Referees do it all the time.
                            Not on something that obvious. CF ran him over, that's 100% an easy call to make and needed to be made. So you're saying the offensive foul called on ALS a few possessions prior when Clevin took the charge should have been swallowed also? A charge is a charge, I don't care if it's the 1st play of the game or the potential game winner.

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                            • I saw Dex, Monzy, Mo and Ricky for all three games but not any if the other guys too much. Kinda figured the whole team would be there together. Especially the older guys showing the new guys what a real fan base looks like. Building team chemistry. Where's TE?

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                              • I didn't like the charge call on CF, but I felt it was the right call after reviewing it.

                                I actually like the physicality of this game. I know some dont, I think at times they let it go too far. I would bet there were more fouls called in this game than previous games. I was ok with that too.

                                Although leaving much to be desired, the officiating was much better than the previous game. While there were many debatable calls, nothing rose to the level of shame that the call, or no call rather, on MM did against Creighton. These are professional athletes, not college kids, I think the game may have been too much for these crews.

                                Just happy to get the W!

                                Go Shocks!

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