Shocker Kenpom Ranking

[Shockm]

Well Massey gave us some improvement. For the AAC
10 Houston
32 SMU
57 Shox
65 Tulsa
73 UCF
84 Memphis
105 USF
114 Temple
116 Cincy
130 E. Carolina
168 Tulane

we are Top 3 in conference, but much lower than we want. The Houston game would change that. Also, Cincy is way below their usual. Lastly, E. Carolina isn’t the drag on the conference they used to be.

[pie n eye]

Some other metrics...

67 in Sagarin
68 at Haslametrics
73 at Torvik

We've made about a 20-30 spot jump in most metrics since the beginning of the season. Which tells me we could end up a Top 50 team when it’s all said and done, potentially top 40. We would need better personnel to get beyond that.

I don’t see personnel as something that is holding the team back. We have the dudes to be better than good. If anything, time is the biggest limiting factor for our ceiling. They’re all still so new to the team and have had various issues throughout the year that has caused missed practice time.

We’ll find out more about how our personnel matches up with Houston on Wednesday. My guess is the result will be much different than last year. Not necessarily a win, that would surprise me, but I think we have the athletes and guard play to put up a good fight.

[SB Shock]

Isn't that still last year's data? ... That's where we finished last year... They haven't released any this year that I've seen

I am going off of Warren Nolan site that is publicizing NET team sheets for this year. The data populating the team sheet is from this year.

http://www.warrennolan.com/basketbal...=Wichita-State

That will kind of be a big fail by Warren Nolan if they are using old numbers. But I guess maybe that is why the NET hasn't changed since they won last night.

[SB Shock]

I am going off of Warren Nolan site that is publicizing NET team sheets for this year. The data populating the team sheet is from this year.

http://www.warrennolan.com/basketbal...=Wichita-State

That will kind of be a big fail by Warren Nolan if they are using old numbers. But I guess maybe that is why the NET hasn't changed since they won last night.

It does look like Warren Nolan is using last year net to assemble team sheets for this year. Makes you wonder if the NCAA is dropping the NET for this year or keeping it private. So apologies for anybody that I may have gotten their hopes up.

[wichshock65]

[Atxshoxfan]

Well Massey gave us some improvement. For the AAC
10 Houston
32 SMU
57 Shox
65 Tulsa
73 UCF
84 Memphis
105 USF
114 Temple
116 Cincy
130 E. Carolina
168 Tulane

we are Top 3 in conference, but much lower than we want. The Houston game would change that. Also, Cincy is way below their usual. Lastly, E. Carolina isn’t the drag on the conference they used to be.

I think the most resistance to upward movement is the low ratings of the conference in general. Better than the valley, but it still doesn't give enough games against high rated teams. That's why high level out of conference games are so important to any conference and team outside of the p5

[ShockerFever]

Any ratings system that has Drake at #29 I will kindly take with a grain of salt and a large order of LOL.

[Shockm]

I think the most resistance to upward movement is the low ratings of the conference in general. Better than the valley, but it still doesn't give enough games against high rated teams. That's why high level out of conference games are so important to any conference and team outside of the p5

It didn't hurt Drake. I don't disagree with non P5's having scheduling difficulties at time although East Carolina and maybe a few others show that just a little effort and their low rankings move upward. They used to be below 200 consistently. But the formula has problems with some of the movement of others like Drake. Do they just need to win or maybe win by large margins but it doesn't matter who?

[Kel Varnsen]

I don’t see personnel as something that is holding the team back. We have the dudes to be better than good. If anything, time is the biggest limiting factor for our ceiling. They’re all still so new to the team and have had various issues throughout the year that has caused missed practice time.

We’ll find out more about how our personnel matches up with Houston on Wednesday. My guess is the result will be much different than last year. Not necessarily a win, that would surprise me, but I think we have the athletes and guard play to put up a good fight.

I would agree we have better athletes and personnel at 3-4 positions than we did last season. However, our bigs of MU and IPBC leave a lot to be desired in terms of production and efficiency.

Throw in any one of Stutz, Morris, Hall, or Carter and this team becomes a Top 25 team IMO. Those guys were all better defensively than our current bigs and would be a 15-20% improvement in terms of offensive efficiency at that position.

[wichshock65]

[pie n eye]

Is it possible we remember Stutz, Hall, Shaq, etc more as the players they were when they left than the players they were from game to game?

They were both fantastic players their final year or two but I seem to remember a lot of complaints about Stutz and Shaq up until that point.

I guess the biggest difference is perceived upside. Stutz was 7’0. That can’t be taught. Shaq was a huge man with great athleticism and skills.

Udeze has never been tagged with the same “upside” potential as those two. I don’t necessarily disagree with that take but I also think it’s a little unfair considering his shoulder issues and surgeries he’s dealt with.

I think Carl Hall had the most consistent career at WSU. He was pretty much a solid contributor from day 1. He didn’t have the height of Stutz or the skill/athleticism combo of Shaq but he was built like a tank, was more than athletic enough, and had a knack for rebounding.

I think Mo has the tools to be a similar player to Carl. The obvious flaw with that comparison is rebounding. Mo has shown throughout his career that he is capable of very good rebounding games but he hasn’t done it consistently and is really struggling this year. I’m at a bit of a loss why that is.

[pie n eye]

As far as Poor Bear goes, I’m pleasantly surprised and optimistic about his year so far. He provides an outside shooting element that Udeze does not and usually gets a stick back or two per game off missed shots. In the past he looked unsure of where he should be on the court at any given time. I get that impression less with each game.

[Dan]

The good news is we will have both of these guys for 2 more years after this year with the Covid rules. They will only get better.

[pie n eye]

Bilau is the biggest wild card. Even last game I saw a few things I really liked.

On offense he made a nice pocket pass from the wing to a cutter. On the defensive end he got pushed completely out of bounds but hustled back on the court and boxed a man out as the shot went up.

So what, they say, that’s like two tiny little things. Well, he also only played three minutes. Sure, there were times he looked on the verge of traveling but he didn’t.

He just looks like a guy who needs more practice, more game experience, more time. Obviously his health has held him back from obtaining those things so far. I think getting run against teams like ESU and Newman could benefit him a lot but making sure he’s healthy is probably priority number one. And, as much ire as they’ve drawn, I do think Udeze and Poor Bear are playing well enough that we can afford to bring him along slowly.

I still think if Udeze and Poor Bear continue to clean up a few things and Bilau can get healthy enough to get some much needed experience, that the pieces are there to have a solid three headed monster at the five. We’ve had plenty of success using that formula without a singular “dominant” big.

[TheShocktocles]

Bilau is the biggest wild card. Even last game I saw a few things I really liked.

On offense he made a nice pocket pass from the wing to a cutter. On the defensive end he got pushed completely out of bounds but hustled back on the court and boxed a man out as the shot went up.

So what, they say, that’s like two tiny little things. Well, he also only played three minutes. Sure, there were times he looked on the verge of traveling but he didn’t.

He just looks like a guy who needs more practice, more game experience, more time. Obviously his health has held him back from obtaining those things so far. I think getting run against teams like ESU and Newman could benefit him a lot but making sure he’s healthy is probably priority number one. And, as much ire as they’ve drawn, I do think Udeze and Poor Bear are playing well enough that we can afford to bring him along slowly.

I still think if Udeze and Poor Bear continue to clean up a few things and Bilau can get healthy enough to get some much needed experience, that the pieces are there to have a solid three headed monster at the five. We’ve had plenty of success using that formula without a singular “dominant” big.

Totally agree.