A little love from Dickie V

[kochHead]

I believe the definition of a "mid-major" has changed over the last couple years. When the term first gained popularity, it was basically being used to describe schools and conferences that were not in the "Big 6", and were not SWAC level team doormats. Everyone was included from Gonzaga and Xavier to Drake and Tulsa. Now, I hear ESPN and other saying "here are the best mid-majors, but we are excluding this conference (A10 or C-USA or whoever) and these teams because they have proven themselves not to be a "mid-major". WTF??!?! Haven't certain teams in "Big 6" conferences proven themselves to be Kraft BBQ...err I mean mid-majors? Funny how it doesn't work both ways. I just hope one day WSU will be one of the teams excluded from a mid-major poll or article, due to our level of sustained success.

[Kung Wu]

Screw it, let's win a championship and let them call us whatever they want.

[Good News]

My analogy is actually getting better and better with the conversation denigrating Kraft BBQ sauce so severely. Let me start with MVJ's comparison of Kraft to Wake Forest. That precisely fits the point I was trying to make. Let's take two stores - one in LA and one in NYC. One shopper in each store and only two varieties of BBQ sauce on the shelf - Curley's (mid-major) and Kraft (BCS).

The deciding factor in the purchase is probably determined by the shopper's product experience (basketball knowledge).

The shopper with no product experience (basketball knowledge) is likely to pick the Kraft product because of their familiarity with Kraft - perhaps their familiarity with Mac-n-Cheese (Wake Forest football). People generally have higher confidence in a "name" brand than in an unknown brand.

The shopper with prior experience with Kraft BBQ sauce (Wake Forest basketball) is likely to pick Curley's. Not because they are familiar with Curley's (the unknown mid-major), but because they ARE familiar with Kraft BBQ sauce(the known high major, Wake Forest).

If not many people have heard of you or follow your program, you're a mid major. Purchasing is analogous to recruiting. Shoppers (recruits) are more likely to pick the known brand over the unknown brand, unless they are familiar with the specific product (Wake Forest = Kraft BBQ sauce).

In sports casting terminology, which has LOTS of jargon, "not many people have heard of this group of schools" is cumbersome. "Mid-major" rolls off the tongue nicely and fits easily into sound bites, so it stuck. The term doesn't have a precise definition, but that's sports casting. Nationally, more people have heard of Wake Forset than WSU. Wake Forest, even though they're bad, is a high major. WSU, even though they're good, is a mid-major.

If this discussion doesn't surface in a Curb Your Enthusiasm episode next season, I'm going to be disappointed.

[Bigshotmaker]

I dont like the way some announcers use the mid-major label.They use it as a put down especially if they played in the ACC.I listened to Len Elmore announce the WSU vs Siena game, an you know he's speaking from his experience of playing at Maryland and everything from Maryland is beneath them.That's the way he meant to come off,I even heard him describing his own brother as playing for a mid-major.If I'm not mistaken his brother played at WSU,somebody correct me if I'm wrong.I once had a casual conversation with him and he used the term unconciously several times describing non BCS schools. He came off to me like a pompous elitist ***.

[Wu du Nord]

How did you get to Shocker Football and Bowling from a thread about a Dickie V, Q&A?

Scroll to the 'Half-time' segment of this article...

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7506472/titus-top-12-college-basketball-power-rankings-week-7-including-kentucky-missouri-ohio-state-more

Answer is at the bottom the page.

[Wu du Nord]

The BBQ Sauce analogy doesn't hold water. Stop it. Just stop it.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

The BBQ Sauce analogy doesn't hold water. Stop it. Just stop it.

Que¿

[ShockerPhi]

I don't remember which thread I'm on anymore? Is it the BBQ sauce thread or something about ... Dickie V?

[kochHead]

The BBQ Sauce analogy doesn't hold water. Stop it. Just stop it.

Sure it does. Re read the posts so you can catch up. I think its great and I relish these quality posts. Going back to the mid-major situation it is quite the pickle. As long as you can cut the mustered against the big 6 in the non con and post season, that mid major label will fall off your program.

[1972Shocker]

I don't remember which thread I'm on anymore? Is it the BBQ sauce thread or something about ... Dickie V?

Is their a difference? Too much of either will give you indigestion.

[JaminShock]

Is their a difference? Too much of either will give you indigestion.

This post is awesome with a capital A, baybee! 1972Shocker is a real PTPer...

[SirShoxAlot]

There are four levels of play in college basketball. Mid-major is one of them. I prefer mid-major because non-BCS puts us on the same level as teams like Jacksonville St. or Southern. The levels are:

1. Low-major
2. Mid-major
3. Quasi-major
4. BCS

We are a mid-major. We are AS GOOD as a quasi-major, but we don't have the accomplishments to back it up (top-25 and NCAA tournament appearances). Teams like UNLV, San Diego State and Gonzaga are quasi-major. I love the term "quasi-major" because those teams get huge national respect and it only takes ONE year to earn the title and about three or four years to fall back to "mid-major." Creighton, with just this one season, has become a quasi-major program. San Diego State did it last year, before which they were mid-major at best. Butler, on the other hand, is having a subpar year, yet still gets attention and respect from national media. Wichita State is on the verge of becoming quasi-major.

BCS is the only misleading title. Wake Forrest (or any lackluster program in a BCS conference) is perceived, generally, to be better than Wichita State (or any mid-major). Now, that's very untrue, but it's just the way it is. We hate it, but there's nothing Wichita State can do about it until we step in as a quasi-major. We just need a year that we are ranked for more than 3/4 of the season and get a seed above 7 in the tournament. The future is bright, people!

[JaminShock]

There are four levels of play in college basketball. Mid-major is one of them. I prefer mid-major because non-BCS puts us on the same level as teams like Jacksonville St. or Southern. The levels are:

1. Low-major
2. Mid-major
3. Quasi-major
4. BCS

We are a mid-major. We are AS GOOD as a quasi-major, but we don't have the accomplishments to back it up (top-25 and NCAA tournament appearances). Teams like UNLV, San Diego State and Gonzaga are quasi-major. I love the term "quasi-major" because those teams get huge national respect and it only takes ONE year to earn the title and about three or four years to fall back to "mid-major." Creighton, with just this one season, has become a quasi-major program. San Diego State did it last year, before which they were mid-major at best. Butler, on the other hand, is having a subpar year, yet still gets attention and respect from national media. Wichita State is on the verge of becoming quasi-major.

BCS is the only misleading title. Wake Forrest (or any lackluster program in a BCS conference) is perceived, generally, to be better than Wichita State (or any mid-major). Now, that's very untrue, but it's just the way it is. We hate it, but there's nothing Wichita State can do about it until we step in as a quasi-major. We just need a year that we are ranked for more than 3/4 of the season and get a seed above 7 in the tournament. The future is bright, people!

I agree with this, as long as it's understood when using these terms that a 'mid' or 'quasi' major can be better than a lot of BCS schools- it's a naming convention more than a ranking system.

[SirShoxAlot]

I agree with this, as long as it's understood when using these terms that a 'mid' or 'quasi' major can be better than a lot of BCS schools- it's a naming convention more than a ranking system.

Absolutely. Quasi-majors are given the same level of respect as the Dukes and UNCs, it's just noted that they are not in a BCS conference. Which, in a way, gives them more respect, having risen above the ranks of mid-majors.

[Anthroshock]

The BBQ Sauce analogy doesn't hold water. Stop it. Just stop it.

If you prefer we can analogise using varieties of lutefisk.

Perhaps Finnish descriptions of types of snow? http://everything2.com/title/Finnish...20for%2520snow

"Duke is so totally myräkkä, but SC Upstate is kohva."