Coach Gregg Marshall Investigation

[shock]

The theory that has the least inconsistencies is that Marshall hit Shaq and several players anonymously confirmed that to ******* and likely to the law firm investigating the allegations. The details of where and when it happened are not consistent. The part that's consistent is that Marshall hit Shaq.

Except that is not true. We have three stories on record- Shaq, Marshall, and Ron. Shaq says he was hit twice before he left the court, ******* says he got 8 guys to confirm that. Marshall says he never struck a player, but he didn’t say what happened. Ron says he didn’t see it because it happened in the concourse, but a couple guys said they saw it and Shaq said he got hit.

That is ALL we have to go on. I think ******* embellished the story, but I think 8 guys said Marshall hit Shaq because Shaq told them Marshall did.

If there's nothing to the allegations Marshall gets $15 mill, or at least more than $7.5.

And if the allegations are true, Marshall gets less that $7.5mil. Obviously, the facts differ from the article because of the reaction to Marshall getting $7.5 mil.

The theory that has the most inconsistencies is "I never laid a hand on a player or an assistant". That one is contested by several anonymous players and that statement caused Baker to go on record in support of Shaq.

Again, this is false. Marshall said he never physically struck a player, not that he never laid a hand on a player. That is a big difference that opens the door for the part of the articles that said Marshall shoved Shaq in the back, harshly enough that some players said it looked like Marshall punched Shaq.

Baker came out in support of the truth. He supports Gregg and Shaq.

Linsted's silence on the subject of his situation is pretty much a guarantee that the allegation is true. Assistants rely on recommendations from former coaches and their demonstration of loyalty to coaches to stay employed.

He was quiet because this was a giant nothing burger that was blown out of spec by one player. He was fine and Marshall was fine and they both moved on quickly. If it was true that KL made a derogatory comment about Maggie making the rounds with the team, then I would say whatever Marshall did was between men and stayed between men.

What this discussion is coming down to is a discussion of whether the ends justify the means. The ends are national prominence. The means are some questions about possible abuse of players. Conclusions of individual fans is probably going to come down to the level of abuse players should tolerate if that leads to more wins. What constitutes "abuse" is subjective. It's going to vary among players. To further complicate matters, what constitutes "abuse" among fans is going to have a lot of variations.

What constitutes "abuse" to the mother of a 16-year-old HS Jr is probably why the best option for WSU was to guarantee paying Marshall nearly $8 mill in order to have access to living rooms of recruits.

Again, I don’t think that is true. Listen to Ron describe it- He, Cle, and Fred fed off of it and came back for more, but different guys took it different ways and Marshall rode the high upside guys (like Cle) the hardest. Both Ron and Doug said anything verbal that was said was fine, nothing alleged crossed the line, just don’t hit the players.

[wichita]

Ron Baker is a good guy, wants to be a coach, he does not want to burn any bridges, so he is very diplomatic in his interview. Why does this board think there was just one assault? Ron should be asked about players & all in attendance turning their backs when it gets crazy &/or physical attacks occur. No one wants to be involved or draw ggg's ire and it also gives people plausible deniability that they did not see (because they turn their backs). And maybe if they don't say anything & ignore they won't be singled out also. And the best players probably not at as much of a risk and may not be able to relate to those that are singled out. But by making examples of some players, it intimidates all players. If it was just one instance of GM just losing it, wouldn't a lot of his players & ast. coaches over 13 yrs. have come to his defense, wouldn't he still be the coach? Baker is right, we must let it go and focus on uniting again.

[Kung Wu]

Ron should be asked about players & all in attendance turning their backs when it gets crazy &/or physical attacks occur.

With all due respect, there is zero chance any players "turned their backs" or were asked to "turn their backs" so as not to see abuse. That's complete conspiracy theory bullcaca.

[ShockerFever]

With all due respect, there is zero chance any players "turned their backs" or were asked to "turn their backs" so as not to see abuse. That's complete conspiracy theory bullcaca.

KU fans aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawers.

[ShockRef]

With all due respect, there is zero chance any players "turned their backs" or were asked to "turn their backs" so as not to see abuse. That's complete conspiracy theory bullcaca.

This topic has and will continue to be debated to death.
I get that, all time winning coach showed the door (albeit walking out with bags of cash).
The guy who took the program to heights only dreamed about by fans.
Especially appreciated by those who remember the dark years of the 90's.
Very dark years.

Will the program success drop off?
I don't think so... but that's the wishful thinking approach, here on Thanksgiving Day.
A whole lot more than just a great big delicious cooked bird today (still very important!) depends on whoever is picked to guide the ship through this debacle.

I appreciate everything HCGM (and Lynn) did for the program and city. We probably won't realize the extent of just how much for a few years.
However...
Everything must come to an end and IMO, the Marshall period had run its course in Wichita.
Between his antics, the family spoofs (some of which were Jerry Springer-like) and the over inflated egos and general attitude they were bigger than the school.
It was time to move on.

RB had the best quote...the issue has been a smog over the town.
It's time for a fresh shot of clean air and move forward to a new leader.

That is all.

[pinstripers]

Pretty well summed up

[BOBB]

This topic has and will continue to be debated to death.
I get that, all time winning coach showed the door (albeit walking out with bags of cash).
The guy who took the program to heights only dreamed about by fans.
Especially appreciated by those who remember the dark years of the 90's.
Very dark years.

Will the program success drop off?
I don't think so... but that's the wishful thinking approach, here on Thanksgiving Day.
A whole lot more than just a great big delicious cooked bird today (still very important!) depends on whoever is picked to guide the ship through this debacle.

I appreciate everything HCGM (and Lynn) did for the program and city. We probably won't realize the extent of just how much for a few years.
However...
Everything must come to an end and IMO, the Marshall period had run its course in Wichita.
Between his antics, the family spoofs (some of which were Jerry Springer-like) and the over inflated egos and general attitude they were bigger than the school.
It was time to move on.

RB had the best quote...the issue has been a smog over the town.
It's time for a fresh shot of clean air and move forward to a new leader.

That is all.

We've been on the same page for like a year now. I'm ready for 2021 so I can go back to telling you you're full of ******* on the regular.

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

KU fans aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawers.

I don't like KU fans, and I love it when we whoop their butts, but that statement is overly broad. Perhaps you should preface your comments with generally, most, almost all.........

[proshox]

After digesting all of this here are my thoughts:
Marshall claims he has never struck a player.
Shaq says he was punched in the side of the head, and then again between the shoulder blades, both on the court.
Ron said whatever happened was on the concourse and he didn’t see it, but Shaq says he was hit and several players saw it.

It is possible that Marshall punched Shaq. It’s also possible that Marshall only shoved Shaq. Both would jive with Ron’s story. What does not jive is the version of events as told by The Athletic and Stadium. What is also concerning is that ******* says 8 players saw it but Ron says it was more like 3. I suspect that the story grew and became unmanageable once Patty Cakes and ******* wanted to use it to ruin Marshall

I still believe Shaq was seeking payment for his story, but not from the media. I think he was looking for hush money.

Ron said Shaq lives in Wichita but is scared to go out in public. I think that is sad.

At first you say you believe in a made-up conspiracy theory to protect Gregg... then you write it is sad that Shaq is afraid to go out in public. Do you understand how your first statement is causing the second?

Furthermore, there is no point in nitpicking Shaq’s side of the story. Nobody besides Gregg has denied it. If it was made-up you would have had multiple people from the group deny it. Ron was careful to not describe the “on the court incident” in detail, but said it was bad enough to make him not want to play basketball the rest of the day. If you have seen Gregg in action - you have to assume it was pretty bad - the dude it relentless during practice. It would take a lot to stick out to the players.

[Kung Wu]

Everything must come to an end and IMO, the Marshall period had run its course in Wichita.

You were tired of having a 85%+ shot of going to the NCAA tourney every year?

[Kung Wu]

Nobody besides Gregg has denied it.

Nobody has publicly said they saw it happen. And now we know that of the 7 anonymous players that saw it, one of them didn't see it. So now it's down to 6 that saw it, with Ron saying only a "few" saw it.

Ron was careful to not describe the “on the court incident” in detail, but said it was bad enough to make him not want to play basketball the rest of the day.

He clearly said the _verbal_ aspect of it was what made it difficult. He was very clear. And then both Doug and Ron agreed that the verbal aspect of it, while hard, is not particularly a concern.

[wichshock65]

You were tired of having a 85%+ shot of going to the NCAA tourney every year?

Yep, time to move on. These kind of stats are getting old and have ran their course.

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[Woodrow]

I guess I have a different opinion than most of you. I don't think Coach Marshall should have been forced out due to 5 year old allegations which can't be proven to be true or false. I've been around Coach IB and he is a nice quiet guy. I don't remember him ever speaking to anyone unless he was asked a question. Marshall was a top 10 coach and a proven winner. I'm afraid the next couple of years are going to be tough. I hope I'm wrong.

[DUShock]

There's been some question about why this wasn't handled at the time it happened. Certainly someone in the athletic department knew what was going on and what happened. But what could anybody do in 2015?

Can't force Marshall to apologize or take anger management classes, or really anything. All Marshall had to do is say, "no". And that's the end of the discussion.

Here's the distribution of power in athletics in 2015.

Gregg Marshall: 100%
Darren Boatright: 0%.

I believe the only choices Boatright had in 2015 were 1) Pretend it never happened and hope it doesn't come back to haunt him later - or - 2) Attempt to fire Marshall with cause.

How do you think attempting to fire Marshall in 2015 would have worked out? The answer to that question probably occurred to Boatright 5 years ago.

Couple this with the scenario that if his predecessor had attempted to address the situation and was shown the door? I have been critical of some of Boatright’s action or inaction on some things and believe that is an “okay” AD. But in this instance, I can absolutely see that Boatright’s only plausible course of action was to move forward. As was recounted in the interview, the AThletic Department worked for Marshall.

Go Shocks!

[giskard]

Even if WSU knew nothing, you also have to realize that it isn't just WSU deciding to fire with cause and it is over. UConn is still in a legal fight with their previous coach and their fire with cause. It could end up costing them more than the buy out.

If WSU would have fired with cause Marshall would have sued. Did WSU fell confident enough to prove their case in court? Baker actually didn't see Marshall strike him. Was there conflicting stories in the investigation? Was it a hit or push? Was it this or that?

Is it worth a 7.25 million dollar gamble?

Even if WSU had a slam dunk case, there is always some risk when you go into court. There were probably a lot of different factors that went into the settlement amount. I do wonder if the total went higher so that it could be spread out over as many years as it was.