Carl Hall better than JT Durley?!??

[JSDTBH]

Aargh,

Without going into great detail, I know injuries last year cost JT a couple of starts, when it looked like he would be out for an extended period he ended up playing in every game. Many around here must forget how bad JT was on defense his freshman year. JT made JT a better player. Everyone here must forget how good he was on offense and how our offense ran through him. Of the people mentioned in this thread JT was by far the superior on the offensive end and had a full array of skill on that end, and made himself a pretty good defensive player as well.

I know everyone is excited about this season, but lets not slight others who have meant a lot to our program, by shorting their contributions.

[CARMAX]

Thats an easy answer, even though we are comparing an over 120 game career vs an 11 game jr season to date

1. What took JT 4 years to learn, only took CH 4 games.
2. CH showed up spittin' nails in the paint and JT never did.
3. No 'I' in Carl Hall.

[1979Shocker]

Also Carl Hall doesn't turn it over as much, at least so far.

[shockar25]

JT could shoot the 3, which made him more of a scoring threat than Carl. However, Carl rebounds a lot better than JT and he's tougher and more physical. Apples and oranges I think. JT was a big part of our success in the past couple of years, and we'll always be grateful for his contributions. However, Carl's history with the program is just starting to get written, and I think before he's done he'll be a part of something even greater.

I always try to remind myself that this has been an incremental process for our program. JT was invaluable to getting us where we are now. We'll be saying the same thing about Carl in a couple of years when hopefully another big man is getting his shot.

[JSDTBH]

Don't get me wrong, I like Carl and like the way he plays the game. Anyone who says that he is better than JT offensively is just way off base. Also compaing Hall's turnovers to JTs when JT had the ball in his hands a lot more often is just an ignorant statement. Claiming also that JT was a selfish player is equally as ignorant.

[wufan]

I liked JT and don't wish to disparage him. He did many, many good thinks. Hall and Durley are totally different types of players. Carl, since he doesn't have the ball as often, also scores a lot more frequently than Durley given his limited opportunities. He shoots a higher percentage (obviously closer to the basket), but he REALLY doesn't turn the ball over. Look at his TOs compared to anybody else. He is very sure handed.

[Slalomshocker]

Two different styles. JT was a very skilled offensive player. Carl is a very tough defensive player. Not fair to compair the two since stats will never paint a true picture.

[1979Shocker]

Don't get me wrong, I like Carl and like the way he plays the game. Anyone who says that he is better than JT offensively is just way off base. Also compaing Hall's turnovers to JTs when JT had the ball in his hands a lot more often is just an ignorant statement. Claiming also that JT was a selfish player is equally as ignorant.

I don't know if you can say that Durley had the ball in his hands a lot more than what Hall has. You'd have to go through each game and see how many times each player touched the ball. I didn't want to do that, so I looked at the stats for the first 12 games that Durley played last year and the 12 games that Hall has played so far this year. I assumed one touch for each field goal, rebound, assist, turnover, and every two free throws.

Here's what I came up with:

	FG	FT	RB	AS	TO	MIN	TOUCHES
Durley	101	14	42	18	15	284	190
Hall	82	19	70	11	8	258	188

[im4wsu]

fwiw, after 12 games of their senior year,

Carl Hall has a plus/minus per forty of 23.6, or 3.3 above the team's 19.3 and a Prouty of .433 compared to the team .512
J.T. Durley - a plus/minus per forty of 12.3, or 3.0 below the team's 15.3 and a Prouty of .436 compared to the team .510

[JaminShock]

I don't know if you can say that Durley had the ball in his hands a lot more than what Hall has. You'd have to go through each game and see how many times each player touched the ball. I didn't want to do that, so I looked at the stats for the first 12 games that Durley played last year and the 12 games that Hall has played so far this year. I assumed one touch for each field goal, rebound, assist, turnover, and every two free throws.

Here's what I came up with:

	FG	FT	RB	AS	TO	MIN	TOUCHES
Durley	101	14	42	18	15	284	190
Hall	82	19	70	11	8	258	188

If anyone subscribes to Pomeroy (I don't), he does usage rates on each player that basically tell you how much a guy has the ball in his hands. Using rebounds as a 'touch' is misleading- the fact that Durley has more shots, more assists and more TO's tells you he had the ball more.

[WuDrWu]

Carl Hall is chomping at the bit for the game tonight.

Kind of an X on the plane to Bradley chomping.....

Not saying I'm expecting a 40-20 game from Carl....just sayin' he's ready to get after it.

[JSDTBH]

Last comment by me on this subject. JT is arguably one of the best 5 players at WSU over the last decade. He was a first team all league player and if you put him on this squad this year as much as I like our team and our guys he is still our best player.

[moshock]

Last comment by me on this subject. JT is arguably one of the best 5 players at WSU over the last decade. He was a first team all league player and if you put him on this squad this year as much as I like our team and our guys he is still our best player.

Thanks for posting JT

[im4wsu]

12 games each in senior year.

Durley-- 19.01 pts per 40 minutes and 5.92 rebounds per 40 minutes.
Hall ---- 17.52 pts per 40 minutes and 10.85 rebounds per 40 minutes.

Durley - assist 18; turnover 15; blk 7; steal 4
Hall - assist 11; turnover 6; blk 10; steal 7

So Durley has 1.5 more pts per 40 minutes and 4.93 fewer rebounds per 40.
Durley has 29 Asst+blk+steal to Hall's 28
Durley has 15 turnovers to Hall's 6.

Durley had .003 higher Prouty.
Durley had negative plus/minus compared to team average; Hall a plus compared to team average.

Durley had 3 years + 12 games in 3G system; Hall had 12 games.

Very difficult to make these statistics say that Durley is clearly better than Hall through the 12 games his senior year. Durley's season averages were 17.91 pp40 and 8.29 reb per 40.

[ShockerFever]

Yes.