Wichita State at Houston Slaughter Thread

[Dan]

I have no doubt that we have the best players that we could get

And that is concerning

[Kel Varnsen]

There is a whole host of things wrong right now. There are issues with personnel, effort, coaching, and probably a laundry list of other things that we are not privy to.

Houston is a bad matchup for us. Obviously, because they're a better basketball team, but deeper than that, they have a bevy of ball-handlers who are quick, fast, and can take teams off the bounce. That plays into this a little. We do better playing against teams that are methodical and run motion sets, which is why games like Marshall have even been tough for us.

Personnel-wise, Houston seems light years ahead of us. Jaime and Dex were about the only two players who looked like they could compete last night. I think the mass exodus of seniors/transfers really hurt us a couple of years ago in ways that we're just seeing come to fruition. We have some other quality players, but even they struggled big time yesterday.

Coaching, Marshall is who he is at this point. If anyone thinks he's all of a sudden going to spread things out, run a pace-and-space game, and recruit to that system they are sorely mistaken. Marshall runs what he wants to run and players need to get in line. The same goes for player development.

I saw a decent amount of breakdowns due to effort by guys who I'm not used to seeing that out of (Burton, Stevenson). That was discouraging.

Again, it's becoming clear who the transfers will be after this season.

I've told a few friends that the seven year rolling contract will come back to bite us sooner or later. I'm not saying that out of any animosity towards Marshall, but that's just how these things work. Especially if we're not winning.

EDIT: One thing I forgot...if one possession in each of two games goes just a little differently, we are only one game out of first and safely in the tournament.

[Maizerunner08]

There is a whole host of things wrong right now. There are issues with personnel, effort, coaching, and probably a laundry list of other things that we are not privy to.

Houston is a bad matchup for us. Obviously, because they're a better basketball team, but deeper than that, they have a bevy of ball-handlers who are quick, fast, and can take teams off the bounce. That plays into this a little. We do better playing against teams that are methodical and run motion sets, which is why games like Marshall have even been tough for us.

Personnel-wise, Houston seems light years ahead of us. Jaime and Dex were about the only two players who looked like they could compete last night. I think the mass exodus of seniors/transfers really hurt us a couple of years ago in ways that we're just seeing come to fruition. We have some other quality players, but even they struggled big time yesterday.

Coaching, Marshall is who he is at this point. If anyone thinks he's all of a sudden going to spread things out, run a pace-and-space game, and recruit to that system they are sorely mistaken. Marshall runs what he wants to run and players need to get in line. The same goes for player development.

I saw a decent amount of breakdowns due to effort by guys who I'm not used to seeing that out of (Burton, Stevenson). That was discouraging.

Again, it's becoming clear who the transfers will be after this season.

I've told a few friends that the seven year rolling contract will come back to bite us sooner or later. I'm not saying that out of any animosity towards Marshall, but that's just how these things work. Especially if we're not winning.

Out of curiosity, who do you think is transferring? Poor Bear?

[ABC]

Regarding Marshall changing. Weren't things quite a bit different during the first year of the AAC? Our offense was quite a bit better and our defense was not our normal defense. It seemed to me to be a conscious decision on GM''s part, maybe because of personnel.

[Singeril]

In My Opinion, the reason WSU is where it is now is because of our talent. WSU has 11 players who are really good Missouri Valley Conference players. We have two players that are good American Conference level players, Etienne and Sheffield. They are both borderline top 100 players. The rest are good for where we are from, but not good enough for the conference we are in now.

I think there is a lot of pressure on Stevenson. He is suffering from Ron Baker comparison syndrome. I think a lot of people thought he was going to be the next Ron Baker. That is a lot of pressure. He isn’t Ron Baker. A player like that may never again be seen at WSU.

Same for Dexter Dennis, even before he played one game he was going to be the next NBA player from WSU. He wasn’t ranked in the top 100 for a reason. That didn’t stop the press and the pressure he was put under.

Good teams start with good talent. They also include good coaching. Marshall didn’t have to coach hard in the MVC. WSU always had more talent than most other teams. Marshall didn’t even have to call time outs and we won.
Now, the teams are as talented as ours and the coaching is as well. Marshall is going to have to learn to coach at this level and recruit at this level if he wants to win this conference title. That is my opinion for what it’s worth.

Let’s not forget that Coach Has been one of the most prominent in comparing ES to RB.

[Kel Varnsen]

Regarding Marshall changing. Weren't things quite a bit different during the first year of the AAC? Our offense was quite a bit better and our defense was not our normal defense. It seemed to me to be a conscious decision on GM''s part, maybe because of personnel.

We didn't do much different in terms of schemes or offensive philosophy than we're doing now. We just didn't have the horses to guard teams (especially in the back court) in 2018.

[pinstripers]

Let’s not forget that Coach Has been one of the most prominent in comparing ES to RB.

really?

[asiseeit]

Say what you want about DD and make excuses but the guy is shooting 30% this season. Are you telling me that is
AAC level? With all his athleticism he can't get to the rim and if he does get that far is intimidated and seldom finishes.
In his defense, and ES' for that matter, they are playing with guards and an offense that lacks ball movement. As a player
you get tired and frustrated watching a couple others dribble dribble dribble so you start standing around rather than
making sharp moves without the ball cause you know the ball handler is dribbling to create something for himself. JB and
GS had ZERO assists yesterday. ZERO. Those are the guys that are suppose to be creating good shots for others.
Move the darn ball. Our assists should at least be 1.5 times our turnovers or better. Start there for improvement.

[1972Shocker]

Taylor Eldridge: ‘I can’t get anything from them’: Marshall says there’s a disconnect with WSU players

A fractured locker room and a disconnect between the players and the coaching staff seem to be the culprits of Wichita State’s tailspin following a 15-1 start to the season.

The Shockers hit rock bottom Sunday in the form of a 76-43 loss to No. 25 Houston at the Fertitta Center, the worst loss in Gregg Marshall’s 13-year tenure and WSU’s worst since 2003. It was the third straight defeat for WSU (17-6, 5-5 AAC) and its fifth in its last seven games.

There is no shame in losing at Houston, the top team in the American Athletic Conference. But Sunday seemed to bring out the worst in the Shockers: from poor body language to porous shooting to lack of competitive spirit.

All of those things frustrated Marshall, but not as much as the fact that he couldn’t get an answer from his players following the performance.

“It was one of the most thorough whippings we’ve had in my career,” Marshall said. “It’s disappointing. I don’t know how to explain it honestly at this point. I can’t get anything from (the players). So I don’t know.”

When asked if there was a disconnect between the players and the coaching staff, Marshall replied, “Yep. I guess, I have no idea. I’ve never experienced this.” When asked what needed to change, he replied, “I’ll take all suggestions.”

---

This doesn't sound good. Needs to be fixed in a hurry. It may be up to the players to fix this as Coach Marshall doesn't seem to have any answers at this point.

The turnaround from "I love coaching this team" commonly heard in the 1st half of the year to "I can't get anything from the players" is pretty stunning.

If the coaching staff is clueless on what is going on and how to fix it I don't know who is in a position to give Coach Marhall any suggestions outside of the players. It may be up to the players to fix this at this point.

Looking ahead at the schedule — WSU plays three straight lower-tier teams in the conference — WSU has the opportunity to stabilize itself and restore its chances of earning an NCAA Tournament bid.

Hopefully, this was just a poor response to the 2 heartbreaking losses to Tulsa and Cincy. I guess we will find out soon enough.

[Dan]

Say what you want about DD and make excuses but the guy is shooting 30% this season. Are you telling me that is
AAC level? With all his athleticism he can't get to the rim and if he does get that far is intimidated and seldom finishes.
In his defense, and ES' for that matter, they are playing with guards and an offense that lacks ball movement. As a player
you get tired and frustrated watching a couple others dribble dribble dribble so you start standing around rather than
making sharp moves without the ball cause you know the ball handler is dribbling to create something for himself. JB and
GS had ZERO assists yesterday. ZERO. Those are the guys that are suppose to be creating good shots for others.
Move the darn ball. Our assists should at least be 1.5 times our turnovers or better. Start there for improvement.

you're right, it all starts with not having a playmaking PG. This is the same reason 3G switched Conner and Landry. Landry was the only guy we had that was able to get in the lane. That team would've been much better had we had a true PG that could dish to Landry all day. Both ES and DD would be better if they could roam around the wing and wait for the drive and dish instead of trying to be playmakers (something neither is that good at).

[Stickboy46]

EDIT: One thing I forgot...if one possession in each of two games goes just a little differently, we are only one game out of first and safely in the tournament.

This is the most frustrating part. We are about 30 seconds away from that. Whole season could be flipped with better execution for 30 freaking seconds.

[Stickboy46]

Say what you want about DD and make excuses but the guy is shooting 30% this season. Are you telling me that is
AAC level? With all his athleticism he can't get to the rim and if he does get that far is intimidated and seldom finishes.
In his defense, and ES' for that matter, they are playing with guards and an offense that lacks ball movement. As a player
you get tired and frustrated watching a couple others dribble dribble dribble so you start standing around rather than
making sharp moves without the ball cause you know the ball handler is dribbling to create something for himself. JB and
GS had ZERO assists yesterday. ZERO. Those are the guys that are suppose to be creating good shots for others.
Move the darn ball. Our assists should at least be 1.5 times our turnovers or better. Start there for improvement.

Dexter is averaging 10 points and 6 boards in conference. Shooting 38% from 3. 2 pt percentage needs work yes, but he's drastically better in conference season so far.

[1972Shocker]

Just looked at the Houston Box score for the 1st time. I did no realize that Dexter was the only Shocker to make more than 2 field goal. He was 4-11. The other 10 guys who played combined to make 10 baskets. Only 4 assists on those 14 baskets as well.

The Shocks have not been playing well lately but even with that said I am praying that this Houston game was just an aberration where a far better team imposed their will on the Shocks and once the snowball got rolling downhill it was over. Maybe this is the wake up call this team needs.

[Maizerunner08]

What happened to Burton? I feel like he disappeared.

[ShockerFever]

Say what you want about DD and make excuses but the guy is shooting 30% this season. Are you telling me that is
AAC level? With all his athleticism he can't get to the rim and if he does get that far is intimidated and seldom finishes.
In his defense, and ES' for that matter, they are playing with guards and an offense that lacks ball movement. As a player
you get tired and frustrated watching a couple others dribble dribble dribble so you start standing around rather than
making sharp moves without the ball cause you know the ball handler is dribbling to create something for himself. JB and
GS had ZERO assists yesterday. ZERO. Those are the guys that are suppose to be creating good shots for others.
Move the darn ball. Our assists should at least be 1.5 times our turnovers or better. Start there for improvement.

Do you think AM is AAC level? (You don't have to answer, I already know what you're gonna say)

JB is a cog in the offense. All he does is look for his shot or a drive to the lane to get his shot blocked. He won't change. Coach doesn't seem to tell him to change either. He dribbles and shoots. That's all he does. He's right up there with ES in taking some of the DUMBEST shots.

Until we start looking to pass first instead of shoot first, we'll continue to be a horrible offensive team that'll shoot not much more than 30% the rest of the year. It seems some players would rather pad their stats than play in an NCAA Tournament.