Wichita State at Houston Slaughter Thread

[ShockerFever]

Not sure I would put Sheffield into AAC level territory. I would Dennis though.

We actually have quite a few talented guys that are just making extremely poor decisions. Hero ball, 1-on-1 ball, selfish play, etc makes talented players look bad a lot of times.

We may lead the country in stupid shot selection. A lot of times that's driven by individuals doing what they want in the moment or extremely poor running of the offense where there is little to no choice to force a bad shot. A lot of that has also led to being one of the country's leaders in getting shots blocked. All of this offense disorganization is primarily the responsibility of the coaching staff.

[IndianaShocker]

^ Agree

We have guys who can play. Only DD & JE are playing good enough to win. I suppose you could throw TW in the mix, but he's a low ceiling player at this level. At his best he's no more than a solid role player. We need two more perimeter players and an additional big to consistently play at a winning level...meaning being locked in, relentless effort, knowing their role and being good at it. At least 8 or 9 guys have played well enough at times this season. If we can get 6 or 7 to do it on the same night... we'll start winning games.

HCGM needs to reign this mess in ASAP. Make it clear who runs this program, what the expectations and ramifications are. It's time for the kids to get in line or get the hell out of the way.

[bleed yellow]

I think my biggest concern with all this is looking back at the recent past and now reading some of the language Marshall is using to describe what is going on.
There was a disconnect with that team Landry and Shaq were on. Does anyone remember how that team loved to shoot the ball, but didn't really play angry defense? Look what happened to everyone on that team that didn't graduate or go to the NBA, they all mysteriously transferred leaving us to wonder why.
I think Marshall tried to make it clear that he controls the program with that squad, I mean there had to of been some brutal team meetings behind the scenes because look where we are at now. This current team is the new batch of players brought into to replace everyone that transfered, something has clearly been missing with them and now Marshall is flat out saying there is a disconnect.
Definitely not a good situation to be in, not because the team is obviously in a slump, but because looking at what happened with teams in the past leading up to this point.

[asiseeit]

DD AAC level ?? Look at his cumulative stats. Right now, I'd say JE is the only one showing he belongs.
Bottom line, except for Jamie, we have a very young, undersized and SLOW team that doesn't see the court
well, pass well or shoot well. All that said, somehow we are still 17-6 and still in the dance conversation. Seven
games ago GM would have been in the COY talk. Let's see where we are at after the next 7 games. Go Shox

[Shocker1976]

Following is from the Chicago Tribune link I posted in the Games of Interest thread - IMO addresses the difference in coaching evolution between Marshall and Sampson

"The Cougars space the floor like the Houston Rockets. They play fast and shoot a lot of three-pointers. They prefer skill to height. They use analytics to guide some of their strategy. As a result of this college and pro mash-up, Sampson is no longer creating his classic rough and rigid team. He is no longer playing bully ball.

In fact, Houston is one of eight teams that rank among the nation's top 20 in both offensive and defensive efficiency, according to stats maven Ken Pomeroy. It's a level of balance that carries great significance. Since Pomeroy started tracking those statistics in 2002, only one NCAA tournament champion has failed to fall in the top 20 in both categories.

"I think, as a coach, you're always going to coach to your strengths as a teacher," said Sampson's son, Kellen, who is a well-regarded assistant on the Houston staff. "I think that, because of the NBA, he has evolved and grasped exactly how he wanted to teach and apply this pace-and-space movement."

IMO Marshall coaches the same year to year with no change/evolution which can lead to annual domination by another talented coach (read Sampson).

[molly jabali]

Following is from the Chicago Tribune link I posted in the Games of Interest thread - IMO addresses the difference in coaching evolution between Marshall and Sampson

"The Cougars space the floor like the Houston Rockets. They play fast and shoot a lot of three-pointers. They prefer skill to height. They use analytics to guide some of their strategy. As a result of this college and pro mash-up, Sampson is no longer creating his classic rough and rigid team. He is no longer playing bully ball.

In fact, Houston is one of eight teams that rank among the nation's top 20 in both offensive and defensive efficiency, according to stats maven Ken Pomeroy. It's a level of balance that carries great significance. Since Pomeroy started tracking those statistics in 2002, only one NCAA tournament champion has failed to fall in the top 20 in both categories.

"I think, as a coach, you're always going to coach to your strengths as a teacher," said Sampson's son, Kellen, who is a well-regarded assistant on the Houston staff. "I think that, because of the NBA, he has evolved and grasped exactly how he wanted to teach and apply this pace-and-space movement."

IMO Marshall coaches the same year to year with no change/evolution which can lead to annual domination by another talented coach (read Sampson).

That MIGHT be a little harsh, but to a degree, yeah..
I've beaten this dead horse too much but it is fun(in a painful way) watch other teams move the ball...

[pogo]

Not going to read this thread because I don't want to relive this part of my weekend. I'm sure its been stated by many others (20 pages) and this shows how much we care or some that hate but right now we are a really bad shooting team and seems like everyone presses to make the shot or giving up a shot to pass with little time left . Not pursuing the ball and lack of dribble drive/penetration. Don't know if they don't like contact or not physically able. I remind myself that these last two games have been against grown men while our young guys are not yet mature body wise. It is conference and there are no easy games in conference but whatever is ailing our guys I hope they can get it going again as a team..Go Shocks

[Dan]

DD AAC level ?? Look at his cumulative stats. Right now, I'd say JE is the only one showing he belongs.
Bottom line, except for Jamie, we have a very young, undersized and SLOW team that doesn't see the court
well, pass well or shoot well. All that said, somehow we are still 17-6 and still in the dance conversation. Seven
games ago GM would have been in the COY talk. Let's see where we are at after the next 7 games. Go Shox

DD is AAC level. The problem is he’s really a 2 guard being asked to play the 3 and 4. I’d take his 3 point shooting, size and defense at the 2 over a lot of guys we’ve had around here in the past. We need a 3 that can be a defensive monster and get the rim on offense. He needs to help out the big on the rebounding. DD can’t slash and handle the ball enough to be effective at the 3. We need a 4 that can shoot the ball, run the court on the break and help JE rebound and block shots. We have nobody in the role, not even close. We have a bunch of back up PGs and shooting guards that are playing the PG and wing positions. I like Tyson, he can stroke it, but he’s short and can get flustered by long defenders. If he can learn PG, it would help his stock. This has nothing to do with player heart or effort, it is 100% to do with recruiting decisions. That’s not on the players.

[washedup]

Not going to read this thread because I don't want to relive this part of my weekend. I'm sure its been stated by many others (20 pages) and this shows how much we care or some that hate but right now we are a really bad shooting team and seems like everyone presses to make the shot or giving up a shot to pass with little time left . Not pursuing the ball and lack of dribble drive/penetration. Don't know if they don't like contact or not physically able. I remind myself that these last two games have been against grown men while our young guys are not yet mature body wise. It is conference and there are no easy games in conference but whatever is ailing our guys I hope they can get it going again as a team..Go Shocks

Against grown men? Houston started a freshman, two sophomores & two juniors. WSU started a freshman, two sophomores, a junior and one senior. The excuse of being young is getting old.

[Stickboy46]

Against grown men? Houston started a freshman, two sophomores & two juniors. WSU started a freshman, two sophomores, a junior and one senior. The excuse of being young is getting old.

Correct, Houston is only like 30 spots ahead of us in experience, both near the bottom of the NCAA. They just have more length and athleticism and frankly effort.

[pinstripers]

This has nothing to do with player heart or effort, it is 100% to do with recruiting decisions. That’s not on the players.

I have no doubt that we have the best players that we could get

[ShockRef]

DD is AAC level. The problem is he’s really a 2 guard being asked to play the 3 and 4. I’d take his 3 point shooting, size and defense at the 2 over a lot of guys we’ve had around here in the past. We need a 3 that can be a defensive monster and get the rim on offense. He needs to help out the big on the rebounding. DD can’t slash and handle the ball enough to be effective at the 3. We need a 4 that can shoot the ball, run the court on the break and help JE rebound and block shots. We have nobody in the role, not even close. We have a bunch of back up PGs and shooting guards that are playing the PG and wing positions. I like Tyson, he can stroke it, but he’s short and can get flustered by long defenders. If he can learn PG, it would help his stock. This has nothing to do with player heart or effort, it is 100% to do with recruiting decisions. That’s not on the players.

Dan,
Good call.
DD is absolutely AAC level - remember, just prior to the season, several on here were wondering if he was going next to the Bucks or Lakers! He plays out of position because this team does not have a true slasher who can attack the rim off a dribble drive.
JB tries, and occasionally has success against lower tier teams. DD is now trying to fill the role, with limited success. TE has the ability, but not the experience. It is a major problem and as you pointed out, comes from recruiting misses.
Several finger pointers on here keep firing away at GS, but he is a freshman and will continue to be a freshman until he is a sophomore. He is a getting an AAC baptism of fire and will be a major player for the next 3+ years. But don't confuse him with another PG currently playing north of the border. That's just silly thinking.
The other recruiting miss is at the #4.
Wade works hard, but is undersized and out of position. He is a perfect role player, but WSU has plenty of those. MU could be and was thought to be able to fill the role. But he can't score and commits some of the dumbest fouls known to man. However, I would rather see him at the 4 and coming to set the high ball screens instead of constantly pulling JE 25' away from the paint to set them. The fly in that ointment is he would probably set illegal screens and foul out in 3 minutes.
I was encouraged by PB yesterday. At least he was moving and working to gain position. Maybe there is hope for him.
The real solution is this staff needs to be on the recruiting trail day and night and then day again. Recruit the kind of players that can deal with the UC's. UH's and even Temple's of the league.

That is all.

[pinstripers]

I think that "fractured locker room" is about as ominous as it gets and I doubt that it can be healed in just a couple days.

[Stickboy46]

I think that "fractured locker room" is about as ominous as it gets and I doubt that it can be healed in just a couple days.

Maybe ... but if they can heal it enough to win at UCF (very doable) ... winning helps speed up the healing and we could quickly have a 3 game win streak going into Cincy again.

[B1ShockFan]

Agree with the "fractured locker room". There is a problem and it needs to be fixed soon. Players like Erik do not lose their fire and BBIQ if everything is ok in that locker room.