Wichita State vs. West Virginia Game Thread

[TheShocktocles]

There are three words that go a long ways toward describing last year's early season problems and last night's game

Freshman point guard

Totally agree. I have been saying this for two years. Which is why I didnt want RT to transfer even though I knew he had a tough year shooting. I knew we would struggle with freshmen pont guards this year. There is a difference between talent and skill. Some people think they are the same. In my opinion they are not.!!

For example GS has all the talent to be a good point guard. He can dribble really well, he can shoot off the dribble, he can shoot of the catch, he shoots a good percentage from free throws and goes to the cup good. But he has not acquired the skills of a really good point guard. A good point guard makes his team mates better, has great basketball IQ, and is able to see what the other team is doing and adjust during the game. A good point guard is another coach on the court. A good point guard is the quarterback and the leader.Those are SKILLS that are learned through years of experience.Even Fred struggled his freshman year but he had Malcolm Amsterdam a senior to show him the ropes. We have JB who is good but when he struggles like he did last night we are in trouble. And let's not forget that JB is a young in age sophomore.

Thus this team will be up and down until our young point guards develop better skills. It goes without saying our big have to get tougher and rebound better. Go shocks.

[ShockAzs]

It's funny, this Malcolm Amsterdam feller has helped this program so much. Why does he do it? Has anybody ever seen him?? Is he even real???

[ShockAzs]

Totally agree. I have been saying this for two years. Which is why I didnt want RT to transfer even though I knew he had a tough year shooting. I knew we would struggle with freshmen pont guards this year. There is a difference between talent and skill. Some people think they are the same. In my opinion they are not.!!

For example GS has all the talent to be a good point guard. He can dribble really well, he can shoot off the dribble, he can shoot of the catch, he shoots a good percentage from free throws and goes to the cup good. But he has not acquired the skills of a really good point guard. A good point guard makes his team mates better, has great basketball IQ, and is able to see what the other team is doing and adjust during the game. A good point guard is another coach on the court. A good point guard is the quarterback and the leader.Those are SKILLS that are learned through years of experience.Even Fred struggled his freshman year but he had Malcolm Amsterdam a senior to show him the ropes. We have JB who is good but when he struggles like he did last night we are in trouble. And let's not forget that JB is a young in age sophomore.

Thus this team will be up and down until our young point guards develop better skills. It goes without saying our big have to get tougher and rebound better. Go shocks.

Good ol Malcolm Amsterdam.

[ShockingButTrue]

Who has a better front-line in the b12 than WVU?

The Mountaineers probably have the best big man in their conference, and Culver ain't chopped live either...

[shock]

I’ve decided to sacrifice a turkey today on my alter of a dinner table to appease whomever was not appeased in 06-07.

[Topshock]

Happy Thanksgiving!

WV was probably just what this team needed. A learning experience and a learning motivator. A reality check for some young players that understandably couldn't fathom how hard it is to win at this level. We were punched in the mouth hard.

A team always looks bad when they shoot bad and good when they shoot well.

Some of my usually unpopular player evaluations:

JE: Very encouraging. He kept getting better as the game went on.
ES:: A bulldog. Sometimes that is aggravating when he takes bad shots but overall you have to love it.
TE: Going to be a great player.
TW: Looks a little overwhelmed against high level competition. He will either adjust or be an average player
JB: Tried to do to much because of his success against poor opponents. He will be fine when he realizes he has to let the game come to him.
Sherman: Like someone said, he is a Freshman point guard, give him time
Udeze: Has to learn how to play against bigger opponents
PoohBear; Looks a little lost, frequently.
AM: I know a lot of you love this guy but.... I'll wager he has a minus +/- in 80% of the games he has appeared in for his entire career. How can you keep putting him in
DD: Almost seems like he read to many press clippings in the off season and thought he would just show up and be "the man" He still can be but, he needs to reevaluate.

All and all this team will be fine. GM has some ears now and he knows what do with them.

[shock]

It's funny, this Malcolm Amsterdam feller has helped this program so much. Why does he do it? Has anybody ever seen him?? Is he even real???

He is a member of the Wheat Avengers. There is also Rob Barker, Freddy VanFleet, Greg Marshal, and now CJ Lufeelie.

[asiseeit]

I am not a fan of KU but their center is way better than WV's and Dotson is one heck of a PG who gets to the rim and
runs the pick and roll well. We don't have that...…….yet. Rag on AM but I saw him open up at least three times and no
one ever sees him. His defense was not and has not been bad. JE is clearly our best center but AM is next best. Even
JE is not a good back to the basket post up player. A post scoring threat at both center and PF is a glaring team weakness
if you ask me. Stop expecting too much from the centers offensively except for occasional put backs. Same at PF. We
are leaning heavily on our perimeter players and ES is the only one getting the job done with some TE sprinkled in. I am
talking about against decent competition. Six assists yesterday. That is pathetic and it's on the perimeter players
dribbling to much. Move the damn ball and move without it to get open. The good news is we only had 9 to's.

[Shocker_Power]

Rag on AM but I saw him open up at least three times and no
one ever sees him.

I'm not sure his teammates have confidence in him catching a pass thrown at him.

[asiseeit]

That would be on him. Why run high pick and rolls then if you know you can't rely on your big guy. Not HIS fault.
As I have pointed out before he shot 62% last season. Wasn't just last game I saw him ignored - it's been every one.
Six assists says it all.

[AZ Shocker]

I love our team this year and that game is a HUGE learning experience for our youngsters. It'll make them better. I like Dexter as much as the next guy...but even last year as a Freshman I thought he was too "stiff" and did not really see an NBA type athlete that some were saying. Don't get me wrong...he's a good player and all but just because you can jump out of the gym for dunks doesn't make a player great. If he can get a little less stiff and less upright he has all the athleticism to one day go league...but that may take a few more years to get there. Stiff.

[Topshock]

That would be on him. Why run high pick and rolls then if you know you can't rely on your big guy. Not HIS fault.
As I have pointed out before he shot 62% last season. Wasn't just last game I saw him ignored - it's been every one.
Six assists says it all.

Are you related to AM?

[pinstripers]

Has some ears now? What that mean?

[wufan]

Pro,
Matt and you are reasonable posters and warrant a decent response.
The point is the emphasis on recruiting foreign (ok Wufan) bigs is understandable (legit bigs here aren't just standing on every street corner). But WSU's results are underwhelming despite the time and cash involved.
Look, its costs $$$ and requires a ton of investment to bring these guys here.
Remember what they had to do just to get EO here and enrolled @ the JC for a year? Spent a bunch of pesos and time to get a guy who had zero offensive skills. Yes, he blocked a few shots and grabbed an occasional rebound, but other than giving Cold the biggest man crush and case of the goo, was mostly just a big body.
Bush "Tom" Wamakota was an absolute bust. Couldn't catch the ball, zero post moves and no lateral movement. Other than that, he was great.
AM... I love the kid. Works hard and certainly would never embarrass the school. But after three years, still can't catch the ball, minimal lateral movement and hasn't covered simple low post moves such as a drop step and pivot. His biggest contribution is to set screens and occasionally dunk. Guys like that ARE standing on street corners and available.
They are spending a whole lot of $$$ and time and having dudes set screens and dunk, which any D2 player can do.

Just think its time to rethink the recruiting strategy, especially with the game continuing to evolve more into a faster/speed and attack the basket game.

That is all.

So your concern is that it “costs” more to recruit foreign players. This is certainly true for EO. It was quite the saga, but we were at a different place when we started recruiting him, and while the gamble didn’t return even money, it seemed reasonable at the time.

Sometimes players just don’t work out. Rod Brown, Eric Hamilton, CJ Keydser, Teddy Hawkins, Chance Moore,etc. How much money and time did we spend recruiting AM and TBW? I’m guessing not as much as some I mentioned. Both players were in the states during evaluation. Both players took visits while in the states. There was no over seas evaluation. There was no over seas evaluation on Lifile, or Coleby, or Nurger, or Bilau.

I just think you pointed out that Midtgaard isn’t playing well and thought, Bush was bad too! And, it cost a lot of money and time to get EO! Damn Europeans! Merica!

[1972Shocker]

There are three words that go a long ways toward describing last year's early season problems and last night's game

Freshman point guard

Maybe. But our sophomore point guard was even worse than our freshman point guard.

Grant Sherfield 20:49 MP, 3-7 (1-2) and 0-2 for 7 points, 2 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 turnover, */- of -4

Jamarius Burton 19:53 MP, 0-6 (0-1) and 2-4 for 2 points, 2 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 turnovers, +\- of -11

Jamarius, Trey and Dexter all had +\- scores of -11 in their time on the floor.

Jamarius, Trey and Dex really did have a tough go of it against WVU. They were a combined 2-17 (0-7) from the field and 5-8 from the line for 9 points, 8 rebounds, 2 assists and 6 of the Shockers 9 turnovers.

I think a lot more than three words are needed to describe our problems against WVU last night and I'm not buying into singling out Grant Sherfield as the primary issue last night.