Summer Scrimmage reports

[wufan]

I’m not worried about the 5. We will be really good there. It’s the 20 mpg that Trey Wade isn’t playing there that is highly questionable.

[Shockm]

You all are concerned about the 4 and the options you mention are Wade, and IPBC besides the Freshmen.

But You all are still leaving out Dexter as a possibility to play the 4 sometimes. He proved he could guard bigger players (at least 6'7) in the AAC (Gardner, Tulane and others iirc) and then in the NIT against Clemson and Indiana. His versatility is a great possibility, especially since it was pointed out that we have good perimeter players, and guards). While Dexter wouldn't expect to play a full game at the 4 position, he remains a viable option on the defensive side and can certainly play a flex 4 on offense.

[ShockerPrez]

I am actually bullish on Poor Bear...

[ShockerPrez]

Eff it, I'll be honest. I'm bullish on everyone.

[wufan]

You all are concerned about the 4 and the options you mention are Wade, and IPBC besides the Freshmen.

But You all are still leaving out Dexter as a possibility to play the 4 sometimes. He proved he could guard bigger players (at least 6'7) in the AAC (Gardner, Tulane and others iirc) and then in the NIT against Clemson and Indiana. His versatility is a great possibility, especially since it was pointed out that we have good perimeter players, and guards). While Dexter wouldn't expect to play a full game at the 4 position, he remains a viable option on the defensive side and can certainly play a flex 4 on offense.

Yes, Dexter can play the 4. Yes, he can guard skinny players as tall as 6-7. If he’s playing 15 mph at the 4, that’s probably to the detriment of our team. Need one or more of the 6-8+ players to cover 15+ minutes at the 4.

[Steeleshocker]

Gardner was not skinny

[Shockm]

Yes, Dexter can play the 4. Yes, he can guard skinny players as tall as 6-7. If he’s playing 15 mph at the 4, that’s probably to the detriment of our team. Need one or more of the 6-8+ players to cover 15+ minutes at the 4.

Jayden Gardner is 6’7” and 235 lbs. and that is not skinny. While Dexter is ideally a 3 by position, and he can guard perimeter players, he is as strong as a moose, as athletic as a kangaroo, and at 210-215 lbs. has proven that he can handle bigger players than he is. Gardner played mainly inside last year as a post and our 4 last year was too weak and skinny to handle him. Dexter, while giving up a couple of inches did a great job of stopping him inside.

[wufan]

So DD is your #1 at the 4 this year?

[Shockm]

If you read my posts, you should know that I said he another option to play at the 4. Trey Wade will play the most minutes at the 4. I think that PBC may be another option to back up the position as well as DD. With the number of quality guards we have I could see DD getting some minutes at the 4 but don’t have a prediction of how much or who gets more minutes after Wade.

[Aargh]

I imagine there will be situations where DD at the 4 will be the best option. That's essentially a 4-guard lineup, but 4-guard lineups are becoming more common. If 4 guards can pull the defense out to the 3-point line, then it gives the post player some real opportunities to move without the ball and seal a defender from time to time. It also makes it easier to get entry passes in to the post player.

If our opponents go small ball, we can switch Dex to the 4, Early in the season, we can put Stevenson at the 3 and leave Burton at PG and use one of the Fr off ball. Later in the season put one of the Fr at PG, move Burton to the 3, and play Stevenon off ball. If opponents go big, put Wade or Chandler at the 4. That's if Chandler can learn two positions. Learning systems did not seem to be Chandler's strength last year.

There are a lot of options this year and a lot of combinations that fit the style of ball we're seeing in the AAC. In my incredibly uneducated opinion, the only layers who seem to be restricted to a single position are Echenique, Midtgaard, Udeze, Wade, Gordon, and Fernandez.

Wessel did pretty good as a 6'5" PF.

Then there's Bilau, the 6'10" guy who (from limited videos) appears to have the ability to play SF. I don't think it will happen this year, but next year I can imagine seeing a combo on the court of Midtgaard (7'0"), Wade (6'7"), Bilau (6'10"), Dennis (6'5") and Burton (6'4"). There are too many small ball combos next year to even speculate about now.

[wufan]

Wade won’t de limited to a single position based on his skill set. I think he’s ideally a 3 that will mostly play the 4 due to the skills of others on the team. I hate the idea of playing two ideal threes (Dennis and Wade) at the four and an ideal PG (Burton) and ideal SG (Stevenson) at the three to accommodate. Then multiple players are out of position and we lose some of our advantages.

[Aargh]

What do you consider an "ideal" 4? The way basketball is played today, it seems that a stretch 4 is becoming the "ideal" 4. Kyle Wilson was an early example of what's become common for a 4. His ability to hit from 3 stretched defenses and opened the game up for Miller.

4's aren't banging around the basket as much as they did 10 or even 5 years ago. An athletic 6'5" guy (like Dexter) can get far enough off the floor to outreach less athletic 6'7" or some 6'8" guys.

There's a lot of "4-guard" schemes being played successfully by good programs. If your 6'5" guy can guard their 6'8" guy, sometimes you have a real quickness advantage on the other end.

[Shockm]

Wade can play multiple positions. He is at least bigger than DD at 6'7 and 220 lb. so he is a ideally a better fit than DD at the 4. I like Bilau and Gordon at the 4 in the future at 6'10 and 6'8 but they probably aren't ready yet as inexperienced Freshmen with underdeveloped skill sets at the moment although they will probably get a look too.

[homegrownshocker]

Interesting conversation about the flexibility of this roster. Can see the rationale for playing Dexter at the four, but he is the most talented wing player on the team. He will be the focus of opposing defenses to begin the season this year . Putting him in to guard a post up physical four would help with less running around and chasing their best skill players for the opponent, but it puts more bruises on the body. Never really loved small ball overall if you have pure options for a position. I know many fans had Teddy Allen playing the position this coming season before his meltdown.
Wade is bigger and more natural for the position. Can see him playing there exclusively, but in another system he could be a good wing option. Looked like he played a lot of four in junior college. Valuable athletic skills will make him a tremendous asset.

I’m confident Coach Marshall will play the players in the best matchups that give us a chance to win. Overall the best teams in our league are physical and I would not necessarily think small ball would be our best strategy for success. It is a war on the boards & Dexter gives us a big edge as an excellent wing rebounder.

[Shockm]

Good points. But a stretch 4 like Markis played it was a “wing”. I don’t remember ever posting up although he may have rarely. That is how Wade and Dexter would most likely play it.

[homegrownshocker]

You are correct on our stretch 4 player and Dexter can play that role. I was thinking more about the effects of the small ball on the rebounding and defensive end of the court. Ben Smith was a very good player at the position, but he was out maned at the position by a much bigger player when we lost to VCU in the NCAA tournament (my opinion).

[pinstripers]

It would be a pretty impressive D-1 debut if Wade could come in and give us 20 mpg at the 4. If Dex swings over to give us 10 mpg at the 4, that still leaves 10 m for the freshmen to play (prolly not) or the bigs (???)

[IndianaShocker]

Have to remember, Trey has already played a full season at the D1 level.

[TheShocktocles]

Man I love the pure conversation on this board about basketball strategy. And I agree that Coach M will play the best players in the best match ups that gives our team a chance to win. At least we know Coach has experience playing small " 6 5 " guys at the 4. Sht Evan Wessel and Ben Smith were both only 6 5. Ramon Clementee was only 6 6.

Still I agree with alot of you all that say DD is a better fit at the 3 position even though we know he can play the 4 . There is no question that there is an opportunity for someone to get some quality minutes of play our at the 4 position this year. We have several candidates. They need to man up and get the job done. No crying and whining.

Characck Lufile said that earlier in his career he thought Coach M was picking on him. Now he knows that Coach was helping him to become a man and man up. I also heard Charles Barkley say on TV last year that when he was at Auburn he had a good Coach that was teaching him the right way but that he was too young and inmature to appreciate what was being taught. I am sorry but some of the candidates for the 4 position are going to have to grow up now. That means they have to hustle, play defense, and rebound. Play angry!

[wufan]

A four should be able to spot up and post up equally well. You want a guy that can guard 6-6 to 6-10 players and grab a ton of boards. 6-8, 235 is an ideal size. Early was a great example offensively and Kelly a great example defensively.

I don’t believe Wade posts up very well despite his appropriate size.

[TheShocktocles]

A four should be able to spot up and post up equally well. You want a guy that can guard 6-6! I’m o 6-10 players and grab a ton of boards. 6-8, 235 is an ideal size. Early was a great example offensively and Kelly a great example defensively.

I don’t believe Wade posts up very well despite his appropriate size.

Totally agree that a 4 should be able to spot up and post up equally as well. But when I look at the videos on Wade he is making a lot of midrange shots in the paint. This is a good skill for a power forward. A number of those shots are turn around jumpers that he madenafter getting to the spot by dribbling. And he also goes to the cup strong and finishes through contact. Wade also shots the 3 so he should be able to stretch defense.

I guess we will have to wait to see if he can consistently post up. I can't wait to see the scrimmage so I can see with my own eyes. Go shocks.

[im4wsu]

What a great discussion, but what if we paly a 5-3-3-1-1- lineup? ;)

[Cdizzle]

What a great discussion, but what if we paly a 5-3-3-1-1- lineup? ;)

I think we'd get in trouble for 13 men on the court. I'm also not sure why we'd commit 5 to defense. Seems defeatist.