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Wichita State vs Lipscomb (NIT Semifinal)

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  • Originally posted by Shock Top View Post
    Reading Taylor’s article makes its even more of a head scratching finish.

    No FGs in the last 8 minutes? Ouch.
    Honestly not a huge shock considering the types of shots being taken.
    Deuces Valley.
    ... No really, deuces.
    ________________
    "Enjoy the ride."

    - a smart man

    Comment


    • Originally posted by CBB_Fan View Post
      I'm not happy, but I'm not despairing. We were playing with house money; so was Lipscomb. Ultimately, Lipscomb ended up regrouping and putting on a clinic, and we ended up with a game where our crappy shooting really came back to bite us. Basketball is an easy game when you are making shots, and it got hard tonight. Credit Lipscomb: they performed better. They shot better shots, they did what they needed on defense to make us uncomfortable, they recognized opportunities to get free points, and they read that the refs weren't calling anything but on-ball fouls.

      Let me be clear here: Lipscomb came with a plan. They put their feet in the paint and only let one guy head out to guard the ball. When we drove, they had three guys nearby. When we passed to the post, they had three guys in defensive position. They dared us to shoot, and we had a cold game. That's just good coaching and playing to your outs. And when the going got tough, we went iso and they kept executing back-cuts and moving screens off dribble handoffs to get Matthews open. Our drives were uncomfortable, our posts were uncomfortable, and our shots were off. Ball game. We should learn from the way Lipscomb passed the ball and kept their mentality.

      The only time in the entire game a Shocker felt comfortable was early in the first when Dexter hit back to back threes. We responded with drives into three men twice in a row while Dexter begged for the ball, and when he finally got the shot his man got a good read and blocked the shot. When a 'poor' defensive team executes like that, they deserve a lot of credit. Ultimately, we didn't have a single good offensive possession for about the last 8 minutes, and that was a credit to a senior-led team playing smart ball and an inexperienced team getting frustrated.

      Ultimately, we win this game if we don't allow 7 points from free layups after a made basket. We win this game if Echinique isn't ice cold and can pull his man to the top of the key with his shooting. We win this game if we hit a few more threes. We win this game if Markis doesn't step on a puddle and slip. We win this game if run our high pick and roll with confidence and find our shooters instead of going iso.

      That sucks. It was within our grasp. But I'm not despairing, because unlike Lipscomb, we will have a chance to learn from this. We will have another chance to get back on defense. We will have a team with more shot makers. We will learn our lessons, and we will get back to the big ride, and this game is going to help us do that. It sucks for our seniors to go out like that, but they should hold their heads high because we'd never have gotten here without them.
      This pretty much sums it up. Much better than the petty bitching most are doing. The Lipscomb game plan pretty much said you will not score at the basket... they stuck with the plan unlike most college teams and worked our bigs to death by running. Sometimes you lose to a better team.

      Comment


      • GreatWhiteBuffalo
        GreatWhiteBuffalo commented
        Editing a comment
        Shocks also win if Burton doesn't miss two OPEN layups (one for an 'and one') and McDuffie finishes at the rim for his 'and one' late in the game. So many "would have won ifs"...a timeout during the blowing of the 11-point lead would have been fantastic also.

    • Bald coaches are Gregg's Kryptonite!
      Rip em up, Tear em up, Give em HELL Shockers!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by proshox View Post

        This pretty much sums it up. Much better than the petty bitching most are doing. The Lipscomb game plan pretty much said you will not score at the basket... they stuck with the plan unlike most college teams and worked our bigs to death by running. Sometimes you lose to a better team.
        It's funny how their game plan was getting roasted until about 6 minutes left and the seniors went into 1on1 mode.

        I'm pretty sure most gameplans had us beat at that point.
        Deuces Valley.
        ... No really, deuces.
        ________________
        "Enjoy the ride."

        - a smart man

        Comment


        • proshox
          proshox commented
          Editing a comment
          The key point - They stuck with it despite the score. They knew WSU struggles to shoot the ball with consistentlcy and dared us to shoot despite being down. We took a couple of early open looks around the eight minute mark before trying to run clock. From there we kept looking to drive or get the ball inside and it didn’t work out because of their defense.

      • Damn Proud of you Shocks! Didn't end like you wanted to but you made us all proud! Thank You MM ,SHJ and all of our fine underclassmen!
        I have come here to chew bubblegum and kickass ... and I'm all out of bubblegum.

        Comment


        • Well, live by the sword, die by the sword. Shots that would be good for better shooters also look tempting to those who are mediocre but fearless. SHJ's open but unnecessary transition three with the Shocks up 61-50 and in complete command led within seconds to three at the other end and lowlighted what was surely WSU's worst eight minutes of play in a looong time, especially the last four, at exactly the worst time for it. Poor shots, decent but missed shots, turnovers, trying to do too much, that weird squabble when Dennis failed to give Echenique the ball down low and tempers flared between guys who were supposed to be on the same side -- in a flash, what looked to be a ninth straight NIT win and a trip to the finals turned into a stunning regression and a season that was ready to end.

          Very disappointing. Still, it was a far better season than one could possibly have expected three months ago; and next year, with the help of experience, some good additions, and the subtraction of some weaknesses that simply had to be lived with, should be distinctly better. I'm ready already.

          Comment


          • I don’t pin the loss on the seniors. I pin it on that hilarious sequence of Jaime getting pissed at dexter because he wants the ball and then on the next possession dexter gives him the ball. He proceeds to make a bunch of terrible post moves into double coverage, travels, somehow continues to act like he should have the ball instead of throwing it out and ultimately throws up an absolute garbage shot.

            It was over after that because that’s pretty much right when what’s his name got the dagger three to put us away

            Comment


            • WSUwatcher
              WSUwatcher commented
              Editing a comment
              Seriously, Dave? If you were a Bulls fan, you probably wouldn't have liked it when Jordan got after one of his teammates either, which was not unheard of on the court or the bench. It may have been a silly fuss, but if that had been the worst thing that happened the last eight minutes, WSU would be game planning for Texas right now.

            • Dave Stalwart
              Dave Stalwart commented
              Editing a comment
              I’m not trying to make a point about the game as a whole. I just thought it was so funny how badly he performed after that episode. You’d think he would have actually had something defensively he was trying to take advantage of with all that complaining. Turns out he just wanted the ball so he could fall down with it. Has to be a pretty embarrassing thing between him and dexter now

          • Originally posted by ShockRef View Post
            I am still in shock that 4.3 million/year just stood there and watched the opponent go a 21-3 end game surge and other than a few shakes of his wrist watch, just watched it happen.

            Unfricking believable.

            That is all.
            And now that you've had plenty of time to benefit from hindsight, at exactly which point would you have called for a stoppage of play that didn't already take place because of a TV break, o great guru of the sacred timeout? Whine, whine, whine.

            I do think there may be something to the comment by one other poster that 3G was letting his seniors decide the outcome. He gave them their chance to step up as they have a number of times, especially recently, and tonight they didn't (although they were certainly not alone). But would you have had them sitting instead? Somehow I doubt it. Even Fred and Ron had moments their final year when they tried to do too much.

            Comment


            • It's been a great season.
              I'm glad we probably won't see any school yard balls next year.
              Playing the way we played towards the end. Lipscomb deserve the win. Bc even if we squeezed out a win, Texas would have kicked our A.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dave Stalwart View Post
                I don’t pin the loss on the seniors. I pin it on that hilarious sequence of Jaime getting pissed at dexter because he wants the ball and then on the next possession dexter gives him the ball. He proceeds to make a bunch of terrible post moves into double coverage, travels, somehow continues to act like he should have the ball instead of throwing it out and ultimately throws up an absolute garbage shot.

                It was over after that because that’s pretty much right when what’s his name got the dagger three to put us away
                Agree. But I still give the seniors some fault for the bad shots.

                Comment


                • GreatWhiteBuffalo
                  GreatWhiteBuffalo commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Was it McDuffie's worst game of the season?

              • That was pretty bad. Man. Was painful to watch that collapse after all they accomplished this season. They just looked flat all game. Well...hope some things get fixed for next year. Go Shocks!!!
                FINAL FOURS:
                1965, 2013

                NCAA Tournament:
                1964, 1965, 1976, 1981, 1985, 1987, 1988, 2006, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018

                NIT Champs - 1 (2011)

                AP Poll History of Wichita State:
                Number of Times Ranked: 157
                Number of Times Ranked #1: 1
                Number of Times Top 5: 32 (Most Recent - 2017)
                Number of Times Top 10: 73 (Most Recent - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017)

                Highest Recent AP Ranking:
                #3 - Dec. 2017
                #2 ~ March 2014

                Highest Recent Coaches Poll Ranking:
                #2 ~ March 2014
                Finished 2013 Season #4

                Comment


                • Didn’t get a chance to watch the game, and since I’m just now on here, let’s just say I’m not surprised to see the usual suspects pissing and moaning about Samajae and Markis. We get it, you hate them and are glad they’re gone.

                  They could shoot 100% for the game, and you all would still ***** about their shot selection somehow. Spare us all the sanctimonious BS. We don’t win 15 (hell, maybe 10) games without them this season.
                  "In God we trust, all others must bring data." - W. Edwards Deming

                  Comment


                  • GreatWhiteBuffalo
                    GreatWhiteBuffalo commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Markis was exceptionally bad, man. I mean really, really bad.

                  • JVShocker(1)
                    JVShocker(1) commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Again, since you didn't watch- comments are completely unjustified. And again, there is no predictor of how a team will play or won't play if someone doesn't take/make those shots. There is no way to predict how any team will fare if someone doesn't take all those shots, shooting 28-30% in the process. Numbers don't lie...our two seniors (for whatever reason) took the majority of shots - sometimes out of the flow of the game - and managed to shoot about 30% over their last 10-15 games. Some of the shots were just laughable and were fairly easy to predict (even.) Despite all of this, I still think the team played well late in the season and it was fun to watch. My hope is for a better team game next season with better passing.

                • Woof. An 11-point lead with, what, 8 minutes left? That ending was frustrating, but not unforeseeable. Regardless, the entire NIT was pretty much house money for the Shocks. This was invaluable experience for the young guys heading into the next campaign. I'm proud of the way the team responded mid-year and turned things around. We all know they have things to improve and so do they. I just wish they had a couple of shooters like Lipscomb had.

                  Comment


                  • Tough way to end a tough season. Most of us knew this would be a long season with a bunch of bumps on the road. I had high expectations for the team based on what I've seen Coach Marshall do over the years and will admit to major despair in the middle of the season. But they found their spark and resurrected what was shaping up to be a really down season and ended up winning 22 games and making it all the way to the Final Four...of the NIT. Still, I'd consider this season a success. Not the kind of success we've become accustomed to here in Shocker land, but 22 wins after starting 8-11 is pretty impressive. And those last three wins on the road in the NIT were eye watering.

                    Gotta hand it to Lipscomb. Those seniors did a great job of taking the game away from us (although we gave them the opening they needed). I hope they beat the crap out of Shaka and the Horns, I've never liked Texas.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by WSUwatcher View Post

                      And now that you've had plenty of time to benefit from hindsight, at exactly which point would you have called for a stoppage of play that didn't already take place because of a TV break, o great guru of the sacred timeout? Whine, whine, whine.

                      I do think there may be something to the comment by one other poster that 3G was letting his seniors decide the outcome. He gave them their chance to step up as they have a number of times, especially recently, and tonight they didn't (although they were certainly not alone). But would you have had them sitting instead? Somehow I doubt it. Even Fred and Ron had moments their final year when they tried to do too much.
                      Watcher,
                      Dan hit it right on the head - HCGM had decided that his SR's were the reason they got there and was going to let them decide the final outcome - no matter what.
                      I get the loyalty to the SR's to a point. They absolutely guided the young players and no way does this team go on the 13-3 run without them. They were leaders on the floor, but even more important was how they lead off the floor. I don't think any on SN have any idea of how much they did for the newbies getting used to Wichita, college basketball and life.
                      But if you deny HCGM can be stubborn, then wake up. He is who he is and stubbornness is one of his traits and not changing anytime soon. He made up his mind about letting them decide the outcome last night and wasn't going to adjust or change his thought process.

                      His comment after the game kind of sums it up - "I don't have an explanation. I'll have to watch the film."

                      That is all.
                      Above all, make the right call.

                      Comment


                      • proshox
                        proshox commented
                        Editing a comment
                        ShockRef, The answer for a timeout was after the first missed SHJ shot around the eight minute mark. It wasn’t open and there were at least 17 seconds of clock. He should have called a reset then. The seniors missed a couple of open shots immediately following this without a timeout.

                        OTOH, this post was silly. First, you didn’t answer the question. Second, it ignores the fact that we were still up 8 when most plays went to DD, JB, JE, ES.... for all the whining about MM and SHJ they weren’t the only ones missing, stepping out of bounds, forgetting to get back on defense, fouling players in the open court or looking off open player in the last 5-6 minutes. In fact, they weren’t touching the ball on many of the final possessions.

                        Lipscomb had a better overall plan, they didn’t forget it when the game was slipping away, hit three massive shots (the no look lay-up, curry range three, and the three with DD in the shooters face).

                      • ShockerFever
                        ShockerFever commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Infallible.
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