Bilas thinks the Valley is a 3 bid league this year

[vtshocker]

here is the analysis of this years team:

BACKCOURT: A
BENCH/DEPTH: B
FRONTCOURT: B+
INTANGIBLES: A

[_kai_]

I wonder if the MSU board is whining about being left out of the discussion, once again?

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I wonder if the MSU board is whining about being left out of the discussion, once again?

But their Coach and their recruiting class both got some in depth coverage.

I wonder if the lack of press will be better for us.

I believe this year is the year to become the hunted. Time to step up our game.

[WuDrWu]

There is NO WAY Indiana State is in the at large discussion at the end of the year. Not with their non conference schedule. Maybe if they went something like 10-1 outside of conference I guess it's a possibility.

If they are, then Creighton and WSU are substantially worse than I think they are, and I don't think I'm wrong on their assessment.

[Cdizzle]

Bilas always says this crap about midmajors BEFORE the season. And then 2 games in he starts running his mouth about his eye test, and quickly excludes everyone without a BCS name on their jersey.

Exactly. Remember, this year you have to pass the eye test AND the laugh test.

Did I get that right? Seems to me VCU did more BCS whoopin' than laughin', but I'm no ESPN analyst.

[Snapshot9]

Indiana State won't be as good this year. Teams will now be used to how Odum plays, and I think it will be harder for him, not easier.

I also think Missoura State will be better than what people think they will be.

[Kung Wu]

Odum was a two trick pony last year, but you have to admit he did his two tricks very, very well. If he doesnt learn at least two new tricks he is screwed this year.

Here was his now easy to stop algorithm:

1) penetrate, and kick out to the open guy on the other side of the court.

2) repeat 1) over and over until you bore the defense to tears, then go to the basket instead.

3) there is no 3)

[ripemupshocks]

Don't fool yourselves. Odum was pretty darned impressive last year, especially for a freshman. His personal fouls were a little high (2.6), but then he got 1.8 steals per game. His free throw percentage was a little low (.730), but he drew a lot of fouls on drives. And his 3pt % was low (.321), but he didn't take too many. Every other aspect of his game was good. He shot almost 48% from the field, had almost a 2-1 asst - turnover ratio, and he had almost 4 rebounds per game. The kid is quick, handles the ball well, passes well, sees the court well, knows how to read a defense, and he is smart. And you better believe he will be even better this season. In fact I'd be willing to say, if Odum played for us last season, he would have been our starting PG.

By the way Kung Wu, isn't 1 and 2 what a PG should do. And I'm sure Odum will have a 3 when he needs one. We better be ready, or Odum is gonna eat our lunch.

[WuDrWu]

Odum is a good player. He is a really, REALLY good competitor and that's what has set him apart.

But again, there are not going to be 3 teams in the tourney from the Valley unless this ONE scenario plays out:

Creighton and WSU are both as good or better than all our fans expect us to be......

And then both teams totally tank in St. Louis. I say both because if a team other than CU or WSU wins the tourney, most likely they will have to beat both WSU and CU on back to back days and that just shouldn't happen in this half assed conference.

[Kung Wu]

Don't fool yourselves. Odum was pretty darned impressive last year, especially for a freshman. His personal fouls were a little high (2.6), but then he got 1.8 steals per game. His free throw percentage was a little low (.730), but he drew a lot of fouls on drives. And his 3pt % was low (.321), but he didn't take too many. Every other aspect of his game was good. He shot almost 48% from the field, had almost a 2-1 asst - turnover ratio, and he had almost 4 rebounds per game. The kid is quick, handles the ball well, passes well, sees the court well, knows how to read a defense, and he is smart. And you better believe he will be even better this season. In fact I'd be willing to say, if Odum played for us last season, he would have been our starting PG.

By the way Kung Wu, isn't 1 and 2 what a PG should do. And I'm sure Odum will have a 3 when he needs one. We better be ready, or Odum is gonna eat our lunch.

Actually we aren't arguing. Your stats reflect my observations. He has a high assist count (and/or ratio) because of the one play he ran ad nauseum (and very effectively as I said before). And no where in my algorithm did it say pull up and drop a three. The slash with option 1) gave him assists and option 2) gave him close range field goal shots. It also put him under the basket to grab more boards than the average PG.

He was very good at that very repetitive play. He was also really good on defense I thought -- so my two trick pony comment was really about the offense they drew up for him. He can probably do a lot more. If they dont draw up something new they are gonna get locked down much easier this year. The same play was 50% of their offense probably more from a lack of creativity on the coach's part I suppose.

If they draw up some new stuff and really change it up they could be more dangerous though.

[MVCFans]

I'm on record as saying the Valley gets more than one team in as well. You can read my Wichita State preview - you might disagree with where I picked them in the Valley, but the top three teams are really tough to separate. That being said, I think the Shockers are dancing come March.

[Kung Wu]

I'm on record as saying the Valley gets more than one team in as well. You can read my Wichita State preview - you might disagree with where I picked them in the Valley, but the top three teams are really tough to separate. That being said, I think the Shockers are dancing come March.

Meh, you lost me when you said "top three teams" and then I totally lost interest at "really tough to separate". I think the consensus around here is there are two contenders. We might look silly at the end of the season.

The only way ISUb is in the conversation is if: a) they have recruited some stud freshman/jucos that add a new dimension to their game, and/or b) they work up a new system that is more creative. They were able to fly under the radar last season -- not so much this season.

[shock-it-to-me]

I'm not sure why everyone thinks teams will suddenly be able to shut down Odum this year. You don't think that kid has been in the gym 12 hours a day all summer improving his game? Is there really something that coaches could "figure out" in the months since the season ended that they couldn't have figured out DURING the season last year? That kid will still be great, and ISU will be right there with CU/WSU, maybe just a slight notch below.

[ShockTalk]

I'm not sure why everyone thinks teams will suddenly be able to shut down Odum this year. You don't think that kid has been in the gym 12 hours a day all summer improving his game? Is there really something that coaches could "figure out" in the months since the season ended that they couldn't have figured out DURING the season last year? That kid will still be great, and ISU will be right there with CU/WSU, maybe just a slight notch below.

I'm leaning in your direction. ISU went 1-3 (including a 1 point win and a 3OT loss) against WSU and MSU during the regular season yet neither appeared to have them figured out by the end of the season during the tourney when both teams' dance card depended on wins. Did ISU play over their heads last year, did they top out? Time will tell. They did finish the season 8-1 against Valley teams including the tourney, so no one had them figure out by the end of the season.

[Kung Wu]

Not a single person has posted that Odum isn't a solid player. Heck he's a really good player. I'd love to have him on our team.

Now, without cheating, name off just one other player for ISUb that is going to be nearly as good as Odum. DON'T CHEAT. Name one. Lathan was good last year. Gone. Maybe you were able to rattle of Richard? Maybe not. Most can't. Lathan is gone. Carter is gone. Kelly is gone. Three of their top 5 scorers? Gone.

Now perform this same exercise for Creighton and WSU. I can immediately name three very good players for Creighton and can name three for WSU that I believe are going to be as good in their respective positions as Odum is going to be in his this year.

And IMHO, therein lies ISUb's problem. Unless they have recruited well or their players have kicked it into high gear this year and/or their coaches have become creative.

I am more than willing to admit I could be completely wrong come end of the season, but at least I can rationalize why ISUb is not going to be as good as Creighton and WSU. I believe if you think a single guy can carry the entire team without any strong support (although I admit Richards will be good his senior year), you are being as one dimensional as ISUb's offense last year. Just my opinion.

EDIT: Before responding to this, please read the next reply on the next page. :)