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Wichita State at USF Game Thread

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  • Originally posted by pinstripers View Post
    "
    Too many possessions wilted away while WSU’s players went a full 30 seconds without executing a single dangerous action. Not a single cut, screen or dribble penetration were accomplished with vigor. The end result, more times than not, was a contested heave from the perimeter just to beat the shot clock."


    Read more here: https://www.kansas.com/sports/colleg...#storylink=cpy
    That was painful to watch. Why do these guys play so mentally weak?

    Comment


    • Has Marshall considered offering Taylor Eldridge an AC job?

      I’m only half kidding... maybe even 33% kidding.
      There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
      - Ernest Hemingway

      Comment


      • To piggy back on the last few thoughts posted: Coaching. The complete lack of any offense being ran is 100% on coach. I will concede that the players have to run the offense, but if they refuse to run the offense then coach needs to put them on the bench. Period. Used to be GGG would yank guys for missing a box out, making a bad pass, not getting on the floor or just simply missing an assignment (off or def). I haven't seen that at all this year with the exception of AM. I know he doesn't exactly have anyone else to go to, but you aren't going to get guys to play as a team by allowing this crap to keep happening. If guys aren't getting it, put them on the bench. There has to be accountability, from coach to MM & SHJ all the way down to the walk ons. I don't see any.
        -Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind-

        GO SHOX!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Slalomshocker View Post
          To piggy back on the last few thoughts posted: Coaching. The complete lack of any offense being ran is 100% on coach. I will concede that the players have to run the offense, but if they refuse to run the offense then coach needs to put them on the bench. Period. Used to be GGG would yank guys for missing a box out, making a bad pass, not getting on the floor or just simply missing an assignment (off or def). I haven't seen that at all this year with the exception of AM. I know he doesn't exactly have anyone else to go to, but you aren't going to get guys to play as a team by allowing this crap to keep happening. If guys aren't getting it, put them on the bench. There has to be accountability, from coach to MM & SHJ all the way down to the walk ons. I don't see any.
          100% agreed. Some guys make a mistake and they're benched for a half. Some guys make multiple mistakes, take multiple horrible shots, and don't get an eyelash batted at them. I don't get it.

          The lack of moving the ball and attempting to run an offense is baffling to me. The ball is too sticky to certain people and I think it kills team chemistry.
          Deuces Valley.
          ... No really, deuces.
          ________________
          "Enjoy the ride."

          - a smart man

          Comment


          • Topshock
            Topshock commented
            Editing a comment
            This isn't the first team where the ball didn't move and stuck with on player for too long and resulted in a bad shot.
            FV did this a lot his senior year. Of course he was good enough and had good enough players with him that it was still a good team.

          • Aargh
            Aargh commented
            Editing a comment
            When you've got a guy who ends up getting votes for 6th Man in the NBA early in his career, you WANT the ball to get sticky in his hands. It's different when the ball gets sticky in the hands of a guy who appears destined for lower levels of Euro ball.

          • Topshock
            Topshock commented
            Editing a comment
            It is unfortunate and will always make me a little sad that we didn't get to see that FV his senior year as his hamstring injury never let him play to his capabilities.

        • Last night we were 2-18 on 3's, 9-22 on throws, our bench scored 6 to their 12, we had 20 turnovers to their 18, and we got 2 more rebounds and they were a tall team. We play UConn on the road which is winnable, but not with these stats. Visualize the Shocker win over UCF, and the massive contrast with an improved USF team. USF are not as good as UCF on either side of the hardwood. Yes, the UCF game was a home game but we had an answer for everything they threw our way. Yes, we had a horrid shooting night, and the issues of fouling too much and our turnovers are killing us. It seems to me we have the talent needed to compete, but the inconsistent team play comes back to haunt us.

          How did we get here? Has Coach Marshall lost his fizz as a top 20 Coach in the Country? Let's again review what we already have witnessed, not as excuses, but rather developments that have us at 8-10. We lost 5 solid Seniors who are all playing for money overseas. Out of nowhere, Austin goes to Oklahoma and we still wonder why, our top notch point guard recruit gets a release, and goes to Memphis and plays in our own AAC, and of course Teddy Allen does not get the nod to play this year from the NCAA. Oh, and LS opted for the NBA and nobody blames him, but ouch. As 3G says, nobody feels sorry for us, and our foes sure don't mind. When it rains it pours, but the Shocker parade and turnip truck must progress forward in search of another black and yellow rainbow. No time to lick our wounds because we have buswax to take care of right now. It is what it is, but where are the weaknesses that are correctable now as we compare ourselves to our AAC teams we play?

          Our throw % is only .687 which is 8th in the AAC but this area gets worse. We are only 11th in free throws attempted and last in free throws made. This is correctable as we remember we only missed 1 free throw in the UCF game. My conclusion on throws is we foul way too much and are not drawing or making enough free throws. We are around 7th in team rebounding which can also improve if we can somehow keep JE and DD from constant foul trouble. Our 3 point shooting % is towards the bottom in the AAC too and the 2-18 last night was the worst we have seen for a spell. I'm wishing we could get more penetration in our offense to draw more fouls or get better shots. It seems like too often we don't even get a shot off before a turnover occurs, we take hasty early 3-pointers, or wait too late in the shot clock to start our play and bite the bullet. These areas moving forward are all correctable, so we will see what transpires.

          So what does it all mean moving forward through this Season and preparing for next? Is the sky going to keep falling? Here are my opinions and they may be wrong, but they are always free. Tsk, tsk, tsk. As long as Coach Marshall is at the helm, when the storms come, in due time, he will point our Program again to that success we all are so use to. It has been said that people can become victims of their own success? Yes, but 3G does not at all remind me of that happening. As I recall, the Season we were in the Final 4, we were picked only 4th in the Valley. My point is, he knows how to reload and make the needed adjustments as he did when he arrived at 21st and Hillside. His National Coach of the Year honor here is proof of that and the Shocks Danced 7 Seasons in a row. Will he gut this whole team? Of course not, but we need scorers, and some laser shooters in here so look for a few strategic moves as he continues to do a smoother than silk shave.

          Last but not least, we the SN faithful will never give up on our beloved Shocks. We will moan and groan at times through the tough times, but continue to follow every solitary game no matter what, which is what true fans do. I'm really glad Duff and SHJ stayed on because they had a choice to leave like a tree, but instead stayed for their Senior Season. Here's what I think. This has been quite a rollercoaster ride but I'm grateful these two loyal Seniors stuck with us. They have had their tough moments, but they are improved from last Season and we need them this Season. As far looking forward to the remaining games of this Season and what we need to do and how long will it take in the future to right this ship, here is what I'm thinking. How long will it take to turn it around? With Coach Marshall, I believe we will be in the middle of the pack in the AAC next Season and in the hunt again for a top 3 AAC team the following. Double up on your seat belts because this will be an uphill ride at first but then thereafter comes the thrills and chills we love and are used to as Shocker fans. Take a deep breath as the Shocks fight and claw with all their might in search of an identity of a young team that can still improve before the curtains close for another Shocker Season.
          Last edited by forevershockerfan; 3 weeks ago.
          Shocker basketball will forever be my favorite team in all of sports.

          Comment


          • 60Shock
            60Shock commented
            Editing a comment
            Great positive post, FSF.

        • Originally posted by Stickboy46 View Post
          I said this during the game. We don't seem to understand how to use screens. A player sets a screen, the dribbler leaves 3 feet between him and the screener and the defender slides right in between. On top of that, the hedge man is there so we just go side to side. We can't make a dangerous action because we can't get any separation. Use those screens properly then make a cut. Make the defense scramble a bit. Fred was a master at this. He would not only use the screen to get around, but then slide in behind the screener, hesitate and get the defender on his back and make a play.

          I'm actually surprised we don't get called for more illegal screens due to this. Often we are leaning or sticking legs out trying to make contact as the defender is moving through the truck sized gap between the screener and the ball handler.
          You are absolutely right about the screens. I think there is another aspect, as well, though I haven't examined replays enough to be certain. It appears to me that timing of the screen is important in Marshall's system, and if the screener doesn't get to his spot in time, the options for the ball-handler become more limited, due to the movements of players off the ball. So the ball-handler makes his move to take advantage of those movements, but ends up appearing to leave early due to the lateness of the screener.

          I really don't know, just throwing a thought against the wall to see if it sticks.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by RoyalShock View Post

            You are absolutely right about the screens. I think there is another aspect, as well, though I haven't examined replays enough to be certain. It appears to me that timing of the screen is important in Marshall's system, and if the screener doesn't get to his spot in time, the options for the ball-handler become more limited, due to the movements of players off the ball. So the ball-handler makes his move to take advantage of those movements, but ends up appearing to leave early due to the lateness of the screener.

            I really don't know, just throwing a thought against the wall to see if it sticks.
            That very well may be, but except for late in the shot clock, isn't it on the handler to WAIT until the screener is in position, then put himself in a position to use it? To me, the handler has more responsibility than the screener.

            Comment


            • RoyalShock
              RoyalShock commented
              Editing a comment
              In late shot clock situations, absolutely. The handler has to be patient. I'm just referring to the flow of our offense.

          • Our worst days in the AAC are better than anything in the Valley. Make no mistake about that. The Valley is an irrelevant one-bid waste land that nobody, and I mean nobody, talks about. We get on CBS and are visible nationally every night thanks to this conference. The Valley is a one-bid mid-major from now until the end of time. So glad we're not stuck there anymore where the best they have to offer is a conference tournament championship game on national tv played in front of about 3,000 fans.

            We'd be a Top 3 Valley team right now and that would be worse than where we're at currently.

            In other words, our horrible year this year gets more play than anything anybody in the Valley that is doing that is perceived as good.
            Deuces Valley.
            ... No really, deuces.
            ________________
            "Enjoy the ride."

            - a smart man

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ShockerFever View Post
              Our worst days in the AAC are better than anything in the Valley. Make no mistake about that. The Valley is an irrelevant one-bid waste land that nobody, and I mean nobody, talks about. We get on CBS and are visible nationally every night thanks to this conference. The Valley is a one-bid mid-major from now until the end of time. So glad we're not stuck there anymore where the best they have to offer is a conference tournament championship game on national tv played in front of about 3,000 fans.

              We'd be a Top 3 Valley team right now and that would be worse than where we're at currently.

              In other words, our horrible year this year gets more play than anything anybody in the Valley that is doing that is perceived as good.
              THIS!. I hate seeing people say we should have stayed in the Valley. As crazy as it sounds, we aren't TECHNICALLY eliminated from At-large in the AAC yet. If were to win out (which is zero percent chance of happening, but for arguments sake, the opportunity is there), we would be considered on the bubble as we would be around 11-9 vs Q1 and Q2 if we made it to the AAC CG and lost. If we took JUST our Non-con performance from this year, then substituted in a 20-1 run through the MVC to lose in the MVC tourney we would be 3-4 vs Q1 vs Q2. Our at-large hope would have been gone in November after the early season tourney results. There is exactly ONE game in the MVC that would have been a Q1 or Q2 game. @Loyola would have been a Q2 game. We get 11 from the AAC.

              That's how much better this conference is. We can literally start 1-5 in conference and still be in a WAY better position for postseason. We aren't good at winning Conference tourneys so autobid are basically irrelevant to us.

              Comment


              • Looking back on this Season, can this team moving forward play as we did in the impressive wins with Providence, Baylor, and UCF on a more consistent basis? Those games pointed to us having some nice talent on this team. Then we had the nice lead at home with 4 minutes left to play and could not put the finishing touches for the win versus Temple. Then, there were the games early on we looked solid in the 1st half but seem to be a totally different squad in the 2nd half and lost some heartbreakers. Before the Season even started, we pointed to this as being quite possible, but the newness of our squad in team development is still quite manifest as witnessed last night. We are 8-10 and still have a tough road ahead. A win at UConn would be cheery start as we plunge forward, but which Shocker team will show up? Stay tuned because it will be interesting what happens from here.
                Last edited by forevershockerfan; 3 weeks ago.
                Shocker basketball will forever be my favorite team in all of sports.

                Comment


                • Two thoughts: I think the Cincy game was a real gut punch to this team. We put a lot into that featured game on national TV,played hard, but had our weaknesses exposed and exploited. Instead of entering the USF game with more confidence, I think we lost a lot of confidence. Second I suspect we may now have a “we can’t get a fair shake from the refs” mentality which leaves us playing tentatively. Saturday will be interesting.

                  Comment


                • I think that was as bad as it can get, but, I won't place a wager.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ShockerFever View Post

                    Well um we have one of those recruits lighting it up in the NBA right now, another that's going to play for OU next year that'll probably average 10/game, and another is starting for Memphis as a true freshman.
                    While Landry was the highest rated guy we have gotten for a while none of those guys were highly sought after. We never made the jump to getting even Gonzaga-level players. We have not landed any high-major recruits. Not saying it is logical for us to get a bunch of one and dones, but one high four to five-star player seems reasonable.

                    Comment


                    • We could go Major League style in our travel.


                      Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss

                      Comment


                      • Just a question for people. What is the last adjustment you saw GGG make when it comes to this team? Switching to zone when your m2m defense held them scoreless for 7min doesn't count. I'm talking about full on adjustment to maximize this current teams abilities.

                        -Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind-

                        GO SHOX!

                        Comment


                        • WuDrWu
                          WuDrWu commented
                          Editing a comment
                          You named an adjustment that doesn't count. Can you name an adjustment that you are referring to, or suggest one perhaps? I'm genuinely curious. Thanks!

                        • Slalomshocker
                          Slalomshocker commented
                          Editing a comment
                          My adjustment that doesn't count was kind of tongue in cheek, I don't exactly understand switching to zone when you have played very good m2m for that long of a stretch. Over thinking it in my opinion, but hey, I sure don't get paid to coach hoops. And for all I know I was so frustrated with the game that I didn't realize they weren't m2m for that entire stretch.

                          My suggestion: @Memphis we got 6 fouls on them with 15min remaining in the 2nd half.... we shot our first FT with less than 4min left I believe. That is completely inexcusable. This team does not penetrate at all, and that is what caused that scenario to play out. Keep moving forward, we still don't get to the line because the ball doesn't go inside, yet as a team they only shoot 30% from beyond the arc. Something doesn't translate here. Team can't shoot from outside, yet most of our offense is ran....outside. Turn the corner and put pressure on the defense. That is an adjustment coach can make. You tell guys to attack, and if they don't.... they sit. It has never been Marshall's style to push the 'Kemba Walker' style game plan, but when you have nothing else and you still are trying to win, you figure out a way to manufacture points....and standing behind the arc hasn't worked in 18 games. I have a laundry list of adjustments, but this is the easiest and doesn't call out individual players.
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