Next NCAA At Large

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I would have scored the other night had I just hit on that fat girl at the bar. The one with the front tooth missing and the hair growing out of the mole on her face.

Yeah, I'm kidding.

But that's an example of the kind of backwards small mindedness that results in threads like this.

Ya know, I'm OK with missing the tournament this year if that means we're back in within a couple of years with some studs and a protected seed. That's better than a freakin' 14 seed every damn year.

[SB Shock]

Seems to me that if you having to exaggerate to the extent that they betray reality, then your point must be weak. WSU seeding in the NCAA tournament under marshall

5, 9, 1, 7, 11, 10 and 4

Nowhere near 14, and no team in the AAC will ever be a 14.

[Stickboy46]

I seem to remember that 1 seed needed us to go 34-0 and there was debate about whether they should give us a 1 seed.

Facts:
MVC 2015: 28-4 (17-1) = 7 seed
MVC 2016: 24-8 (16-2) = 11 Seed Play-In
MVC 2017: 30-4 (17-1) = 10 Seed
AAC 2018: 25-7 (14-4) = 4 Seed

I mean ..... the numbers don't lie there ... ZERO ways to correlate that the MVC helps us.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I'm not exaggerating to "betray reality." Oh for the love of God. The point is staying in the MVC would have resulted in double digit seeds nearly every year. Going undefeated just to get a one seed is not something we can do on a regular basis. And don't forget there was A LOT of doubt that we would have even gotten the one seed. We could have easily been a two seed after having gone undefeated. Nobody in today's CBB world--right or wrong--respects the MVC. I'm glad we're in a conference now that has a lot more respect. It really boggles my mind that there are people who question our conference move. I'm dumbfounded every time this topic comes up.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

nm

[Aargh]

It's still possible to get a single digit seed in the MVC. You just need to go 35-0 with a solid OOC SoS.

[shoxlax]

On one hand, I see at proshox point: that it wasn’t without some risk (albeit minimal) that we voluntarily vacated our ruler of the roost status in the Valley which showed no signs of slowing down. In is in—whether it be a 5 seed or a 14 seed and that gives you a chance.

On the the other hand this year isn’t really a good example of that scenario because our odds of winning any auto bid out of ANY league not named the SWAC are low and lower. An at large bid in the MVC would require 17-1 or 18-0 and this team wouldn’t do that either, I’m sad to say.

[ArtVandalay]

I guess I'm spoiled now, but I'm no longer interested/satisfied in simply making the tournament. Maybe we win the MVC tourney and get the auto bid with this year's team. So what? Wouldn't make any noise in the tournament, and that's my goal. Compete to win a championship.

Being in the MVC means you may be a tournament quality team but still get left out because you go three months without playing a top 100 team. If your a tournament quality team in the American, your getting in, and with a better seed than the MVC auto bid.

[WstateU]

[Topshock]

#13.3
proshox commented
1 day ago
All that really matters is gettting in.

For those thinking we get better players now - is there anybody committed (or here) that is clearly better than Fred and Landry? There are many players that were attracted to 30+ winning seasons and NCAA tournament runs. That might be a more attractive option than an American schedule plus an unknown when it comes to the NCAA tournament.


I think we are clearly swimming in a pool of recruits now that give us a much better chance to consistently sign players that will be as good or better that Fred and Landry.
I also believe that the assistants we had last year did not properly take advantage of the recruiting advantage we now have.

[proshox]

I think you are correct here.. we should be able to consistently target top 150 dudes. This year’s freshman class probably would have been better if potential recruits felt they would be playing vs. sitting behind Shamet, Reaves and Lomax. To me that is the biggest challenge - HCGM did not have a realistic sales pitch to use. Could you imagine traveling back 1.5 years ago and telling recruits there are starting spots available at the three positions (plus the entire bench)? It would have dudes salivating.

Hoping we emphasize skill in that pool vs. athleticism only.

[1972Shocker]

I also believe that the assistants we had last year did not properly take advantage of the recruiting advantage we now have.

Just to clarify I assume you are referring to Isaac, Donnie and Kyle and not the current group of Isaac, Tyson and Lou. Perhaps that is one reason Donnie and Kyle are no longer with the Shockers.

I think Isaac has done some pretty good work on the recruiting trail and all-in-all I think Coach Marshall and the current assistants did a pretty good job dealing with the turnover in 2 of the 3 assistant positions.

Actually, ShockerNet was quite excited about the 9 newcomers brought in this year which includes Teddy.

Interestingly Jaime was probably the least hyped and is probably the best to this point of the 8 newcomers eligible to play.

Poor Bear probably had the least impressive group of suitors out of high school when he signed with New Mexico before decommitting and joining the Shocks after a coaching change.

Chance chose the Shockers over Butler, Virginia Tech and Dayton but obviously that didn't work out well. Most of the other guys had similar are better groups of finalists the Shocks were competing with.

The biggest problem with this group of newcomers is the #9. It is just a very difficult task to incorporate that many newcomers to D-1 basketball. Especially, when the the only newcomer with D-1 experience is ineligible to play and the 4 returning guys include only one 4th year player, 1 juco transfer who struggled mightily his junior year, 1 sophomore big man who saw a total of 49 minutes in 9 games as a freshman, and 1 redshirt freshman who is a good athlete but may be a bit of a tweener.

Top that off with having to develop totally new leadership with no one really groomed for that and the Shockers 7-5 record really doesn't seem too bad. Unfortunately, with Jaime's injury the challenges heading into AAC play have just become even greater. Maybe we'll get luck with Jaime's injury but somehow Lady Luck seems to be a bit pissed at the Shockers right now.

The current trio of assistants seem to have done a very good job so far with the Class of 2019 although it has to be easier to find and attract 3 quality players than it is to find 10. Of course. they have at least one more spot to fill before next fall with Chance's departure. That said you really never know for sure how a recruiting class will turn out regardless of how good they look on paper and in highlight films against a lower level of competition.

Hopefully, this years group of newcomers start to figure it out and get things going. we top off the 2019 Class with a good get to replace Chance and Teddy proves to be as good as we hope and we add a couple of studs to replace Jaime and Ricky for the Class of 2020 and we can go from wishing and hoping to feeling confident again about the Shockers rocking and rolling in 2021-22 when the current freshman are well-seasoned juniors. Some progress in balancing out the classes would be nice as well.

[1972Shocker]

I believe you are correct shock Talk. Perhaps I am subconciously projecting more turnover but more likley I am just confused.

[Aargh]

I am definitely not subconsciously predicting more turnover. I'm predicting more turnover very consciously.

I wouldn't even be surprised to see 2 more. One because of playing time (doesn't matter whether that's because the player or the staff isn't happy with the amount of time the player is getting on the court) and one to trim down the huge class of current Fr.

[Topshock]

That is correct on the assistants. I like our current ones a lot.

[pinstripers]

update on Etch

https://www.kansas.com/sports/colleg...C4yXguGypYDO7A


for those that can't see this, it talks about the center position if Etch cannot go............zero mention of AM

[ShockTalk]

Things that make you go hmmmm.

[proshox]

When do you think the Shockers receive their next “At-Large” bid?

This is starting to look very optimistic. We are well on our way to bottom dweller status.

[N Crestway]

Well maybe for this year and next...any longer and it's all on Marshall.

[ShockerFever]

This is starting to look very optimistic. We are well on our way to bottom dweller status.

lol. I love it.

[shoxlax]

You knew it was coming.

[N Crestway]

Remember when we left the Valley, SIU's Barry Hinson stated that WSU was getting "too big for its britches". What were the reasons for the decision to leave? Guessing it had a lot to do with trying to keep coach Marshall, and Creighton's departure for the Big East but there were other factors...care to clue me in?

Given the stronger basketball recruiting pools for a number of AAC schools, most years, talentwise, WSU will probably be a middle of the pack team in the conference. I'm posting this because personally I liked the old MVC, partly because WSU was one of the old cornerstones of the Missouri Valley, and also because WSU under Marshall had the capability of winning the thing every year.

[RoyalShock]

WSU did get too big for the MVC's britches. The chasm between the top 7-8 conferences and the rest is getting wider. Once CU left, WSU couldn't keep the conference among the top 8 and would have been eventually pulled down by the rest of the league, as evidenced by what's happening this year. Furthermore, President Bardo saw a much better academic and demographic fit with the schools in the AAC. We had no equivalent in the MVC (metro school with a growing research focus). And the potential for Marshall to leave may have factored into it.

As a fan, I also enjoyed the MVC, particularly from early 2000s to 2014, but I want to watch the Shockers play (and beat, hopefully) higher quality opponents, and not just in March.

[pie n eye]

That wasn’t Barry Hinson it was the SIU athletic director.

As for the second paragraph I don’t really agree with anything in there. We took second in the American last year with a team that many here deemed inferior. Projecting to infinity based on one bad year with a lot of extenuating circumstances seems short sighted.

But hey, what do I know?

[cjp27]

Remember when we left the Valley, SIU's Barry Hinson stated that WSU was getting "too big for its britches". What were the reasons for the decision to leave? Guessing it had a lot to do with trying to keep coach Marshall, and Creighton's departure for the Big East but there were other factors...care to clue me in?

Given the stronger basketball recruiting pools for a number of AAC schools, most years, talentwise, WSU will probably be a middle of the pack team in the conference. I'm posting this because personally I liked the old MVC, partly because WSU was one of the old cornerstones of the Missouri Valley, and also because WSU under Marshall had the capability of winning the thing every year.

Come on. The arena has been 98% full or more every game since 2004, and we pay our coach 3M per year. How many programs in the country can say that? 10? We were one shot away from a conference title last year. The only reason we aren't top 4 in the conference this year is our best player went to the NBA, another starter transferred and Memphis stole our best recruit. Doesn't sound like a recipe for perennial middle of the pack to me.

Oh and also our strength of schedule to this point is #11 in the country, I believe.

[FadedCrown]

Come on. The arena has been 98% full or more every game since 2004, and we pay our coach 3M per year. How many programs in the country can say that? 10? We were one shot away from a conference title last year. The only reason we aren't top 4 in the conference this year is our best player went to the NBA, another starter transferred and Memphis stole our best recruit. Doesn't sound like a recipe for perennial middle of the pack to me.

Oh and also our strength of schedule to this point is #11 in the country, I believe.

28 SOS in KenPom with a 95 NCSOS.

[Aargh]

The MVC became a bunch of (some formerly) teacher's colleges who came into D1 for basketball fairly recently. When the prominent schools (Memphis, Louisville, Cincinnati) left, they were replaced with schools that were in their first few years in D1.

Bardo has said there was a lot more than basketball involved with the desire to move. He's trying to grow enrollment and it was his opinion that would be easier to do if WSU was associated with schools like Temple, Cincinnati, Houston than with schools like Illinois State, Indiana State and Evansville.

Grant, Heiar, Jans, Baker, VanVleet. Marshall owes those 5 guys about $1.5 to $2 mill a year between them the way things look right now. Without those 5 guys, the Shox lost to a 13 seed with an NBA stud and 4 Sr's on the floor. Then we have this year. Underachieving one year is an anomaly, but follow that up with dropping to the bottom of the league standings and it has the appearance of the start of a pattern.

[N Crestway]

Was looking for the reasons to the AAC...the association thing completely eluded me.