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  • Making the case

    I seem to be the only one out there making this case - need to play our bigger guards. First, ES, JB and
    DD are much longer, more physical BETTER defenders than the current starters. No question. Secondly,
    ES and DD combined are shooting 37% compared to 31% for the the little guys. Third, ES and DD represent
    the future of the program. I am for starting ES at point and DD at the two guard with JB the first replacement.
    ES would move to the two guard when JB subs. Would like to hear the opinions of others. Do I have a legit
    case or am I off the rails ?

  • #2
    Well....you may be on to something - but you are on the wrong track - you should post this in the Men's Basketball forum.

    Comment


    • #3
      I am an old tech chalanged guy. Will do it if someone can tell me how to move it to the correct area.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by asiseeit View Post
        I am an old tech chalanged guy. Will do it if someone can tell me how to move it to the correct area.
        The old tried and true method is "copy and paste"
        "I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13 :peaceful:
        ---------------------------------------
        Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
        "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".

        A physician called into a radio show and said:
        "That's the definition of a stool sample."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by asiseeit View Post
          I seem to be the only one out there making this case - need to play our bigger guards. First, ES, JB and
          DD are much longer, more physical BETTER defenders than the current starters. No question. Secondly,
          ES and DD combined are shooting 37% compared to 31% for the the little guys. Third, ES and DD represent
          the future of the program. I am for starting ES at point and DD at the two guard with JB the first replacement.
          ES would move to the two guard when JB subs. Would like to hear the opinions of others. Do I have a legit
          case or am I off the rails ?
          I don't think ES is a point guard, and the ball moves best when RT is running the show.

          Comment


          • #6
            How about limit SHJ when he ain't on

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by choida View Post
              How about limit SHJ when he ain't on
              I kinda feel SJH would be a great 6th Man option.
              "Ralph Miller was one of the finest coaches in the history of intercollegiate basketball. His teams were always fundamentally sound, team oriented, well conditioned, and ran both their offense and defense with great patience. I know of no coach whose teams competed against his, whether it be at Wichita State, Iowa, or Oregon State, who did not have great respect for him."—John Wooden

              Comment


              • AndShock
                AndShock commented
                Editing a comment
                You’re more generous than I am.

              • Dan
                Dan commented
                Editing a comment
                I suggested that a few games ago and was ridiculed.

              • ShockerFever
                ShockerFever commented
                Editing a comment
                I suggested it from game 1 and wufan and shockm about ran me over. Strangely, those two have gone silent on the subject since Saturday's fine performance.

            • #8
              Burton Dennis and Stevenson should the starting guards and be getting the bulk of the minutes. SHJ had a good 15 minute stretch against Baylor, but has been taking minutes away from these three. His effort on the defensive end and going after 50/50 balls is non-existent.

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by asiseeit View Post
                I seem to be the only one out there making this case - need to play our bigger guards. First, ES, JB and
                DD are much longer, more physical BETTER defenders than the current starters. No question. Secondly,
                ES and DD combined are shooting 37% compared to 31% for the the little guys. Third, ES and DD represent
                the future of the program. I am for starting ES at point and DD at the two guard with JB the first replacement.
                ES would move to the two guard when JB subs. Would like to hear the opinions of others. Do I have a legit
                case or am I off the rails ?
                asiseeit, I think you have Todd Butler Disease.

                ......













                I'm in 100% agreement. Torres moves the ball well but he's missing something you just can't teach.

                P.S. I am convinced that Frankamp's failure to transfer his HS promise to D1 was his lack of size/length. Stopping and popping in HS is a lot different than doing it against a 6'5 defender with a 6'10 wingspan.


                T


                ...:cool:

                Comment


                • #10
                  Am I the only one who doesn't think Stevenson is a strong defender yet? Yes, he's got active hands which have gotten him some steals and deflections, and I imagine that's what a lot of folks are impressed by. He's also one of only a few who seem to be eager to dive for a loose ball (cf. Jamie literally walking toward one in the Oklahoma game). But those aren't the only parts of defense. I see Erik out of position a fair bit, getting beat down the court by his man, and playing matador defense and swiping at driving guards rather than staying in front or getting in front of them. He's a gifted shooter, and the positive defensive aspects I cited are real assets. I'm sure he'll get better at the other aspects. But he needs to. I still want to see him on the court, and I probably agree with those who say he should play more. That's not inconsistent with acknowledging an important weakness in his game right now.

                  Comment


                  • C0|dB|00ded
                    C0|dB|00ded commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Stevenson is one of the few new players showing the old Play Angry attitude/mentality/effort. No, he is not fully attuned to the ways of the Gregg Marshall system, but he shows great promise in following the footsteps of the Shocker Greats immediately prior. Now all we need is 2-3 more guys that will play with the same effort and purpose of ES and we're good to go! We will have received a 4 year extension on the Shocker Golden Era.


                    T


                    ...:cool:

                  • Dan
                    Dan commented
                    Editing a comment
                    He’s way better at defense than I was expecting. He has a strong body, decent size and good instincts/nose for the ball. I think he’ll be just fine.

                  • C0|dB|00ded
                    C0|dB|00ded commented
                    Editing a comment
                    He's got good long arms, quick feet, and a real nasty attitude. That's pretty much made to order as far as Marshall is concerned.

                    If he were about 2 inches taller he'd be made to order for CB too.


                    T


                    ...:cool:

                • #11
                  This is not a NCAA/NIT tournament team. Since we're not dancing, we might as well throw in our best freshman and have them start the entire year so they gain a year's worth of valuable experience. This way, they'll be ahead of the learning curve for their sophomore season which appears to be more promising than this year's team. If you limit their minutes this year, they'll be less ready to take on more prominent roles and playing time next season.

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Since it is my thread I'll probably jump in more than normal to defend my case. Like Baker, I think that
                    ES makes a better two guard, however, I feel THIS YEAR the team lacks a decent point guard and he
                    is our best option given what we have. I love quick and fast regardless of size but you HAVE to use that
                    quickness as a strength to collapse defenses and dish or attack the basket. SHJ does not seem to know
                    how to use his strength other than to create shooting space for himself. His other strength was suppose to
                    be shooting as a two guard. That has been bad, as well, and he is a liability on D. All the same can be
                    said about RT. Their offense doesn't even come close to making up for their defensive inabilities / size.
                    It's too late to build around Jones as he will be gone next year. I could be wrong but I will be shocked if
                    RT is our starting PG next season or even averages north of ten minutes a game. For the interim, I
                    would , at least, give ES a chance to run the team with JB backing him up. I also want DD to come out of
                    his shell offensively both shooting and attacking the basket.

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Originally posted by Shox The Revenant View Post
                      This is not a NCAA/NIT tournament team. Since we're not dancing, we might as well throw in our best freshman and have them start the entire year so they gain a year's worth of valuable experience. This way, they'll be ahead of the learning curve for their sophomore season which appears to be more promising than this year's team. If you limit their minutes this year, they'll be less ready to take on more prominent roles and playing time next season.
                      Good post!
                      i'm not ready to write off the NIT yet but I agree with the sentiment completely. if the season becomes a wash (hope it doesn't) I'm all for giving the new/young guys expanded rolls.

                      Being 4-4 (could easily be 6-2)...I'm not quite ready to write off the season yet.

                      Comment


                      • #14
                        Originally posted by Shox The Revenant View Post
                        This is not a NCAA/NIT tournament team. Since we're not dancing, we might as well throw in our best freshman and have them start the entire year so they gain a year's worth of valuable experience. This way, they'll be ahead of the learning curve for their sophomore season which appears to be more promising than this year's team. If you limit their minutes this year, they'll be less ready to take on more prominent roles and playing time next season.
                        After these first handful of games, I am on the same page. I was already thinking about over the Summer, but I am certain, after what I have season to start the season, that this what I would do if I called the shots.

                        Start 4 Fr. and MM.

                        PG - JB
                        SG - ES
                        SF - DD
                        PF- MM
                        C - MU

                        Bench: SHJ, RT, JE, IBC

                        Deep Bench: RB, CM, AM


                        Might as well pull the Band-Aid completely off now, versus slowly pulling it off throughout the season.


                        The Assman

                        Comment


                        • Dan
                          Dan commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I’m fine with this. JE or MU at center.

                      • #15
                        Originally posted by Shox The Revenant View Post
                        This is not a NCAA/NIT tournament team. Since we're not dancing, we might as well throw in our best freshman and have them start the entire year so they gain a year's worth of valuable experience. This way, they'll be ahead of the learning curve for their sophomore season which appears to be more promising than this year's team. If you limit their minutes this year, they'll be less ready to take on more prominent roles and playing time next season.

                        I think Gregg is still hopeful, but if things go sideways, the Seniors minutes (currently about 50% of the scoring) will decrease.

                        Comment

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