We've lost our edge

[Shockm]

The recipe was 3G plus Jans with a dash of Heiar... Now it's just 3G with new parts that haven't produced

You seem to be stating that it is a recipe that won’t be successful without your ingredients. I say we get it back. Not this year but in the next 2-3 years. It won’t be immediate but it will happen. Marshall stirs the drink.

[choida]

The recipe was 3G plus Jans with a dash of Heiar... Now it's just 3G with new parts that haven't produced

[C0|dB|00ded]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooo moreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! 

Let's hope for the best! Happy New Years!


T


...:cool:

[1989]

This is your last response? Dang! You are giving up already? Here I thought you were the type of guy who “posted angry”. SMH, alright, go ahead and Chance Moore your way out of this. But let me hand you this L on your way out....

- Yes, I absolutely believe that the problems of last years team are unrelated to this years group. This is essentially a brand new team at a completely different point in their careers than last years group was, so the fact that you think their problems are caused by the exact same thing is extremely unreasonable.

- The link you posted supports a point that I made earlier which was that most programs, including Gregg Marshall’s old program, has their own versions of play angry but that they just call it something different(in this case, the Marshall law). However, that link in no way disproves my point about where “play angry” started at WSU.

In response to my statement about where play angry came from, you claim that I am incorrect on all accounts and even call me ignorant. But let’s pull some quotes and see who is incorrect. On February 9th of 2013, Gregg Marshall had a press conference where he said, “We have the nicest guys in the world off the court, unfortunately they are a little too nice at times. And they haven’t gotten angry enough.” That same day, February 9th of 2013, is when play angry became an actual thing at WSU when Carr and McDaniel gave a speech to the team earlier in the day prior to coach Marshall’s quote that I just posted. Carl Hall even said that play angry speech from Carr and McDaniel about playing hard and getting after loose balls gave them a different outlook on things, which implies that they weren’t so great at those things prior to play angry. So when you call me ignorant for claiming that play angry came after Coach thought his team was playing too soft and nice, you are clearly mistaken given coaches own words. His words, along with Carl Halls, also disproves this notion that Fred, Ron, Evan, etc... never struggled with this concept.

- The concept of playing angry is connected with a players overall development, evidenced by coach Marshall’s own words on what play angry is and even specific examples that you gave earlier on what play angry looks like (that help defense example). 19 weeks just isn’t enough. As I just mentioned above, it wasn’t until February of Ron and Fred’s freshman year that “playing angry” connected with that team.

- I didn’t get it half right. I got it 100% right. What I said, with the exception of the discipline piece, didn’t come from television commentators like you just suggested. It was verbatim quotes from Coach and the players on that 2013 team explaining what play angry is. You’re so predictable that I knew you would dispute any definition I gave of play angry, no matter how correct it was, so I just pulled quotes from Gregg Marshall and Fred. I put the cheese right on the mouse trap and you took that $h!t

- I knew you would disagree with my list of schools who play angry, not because they don’t play angry but because you just want to be disagreeable as proven above.

[C0|dB|00ded]

The only one associated with the Shockers who has lost his edge is the entitled infantile moron who started this gross overreaction of a thread who needs the instant gratification of a binker in his mouth for a season or two so that the intelligent heavy lifters who are most of the rest of us patiently await the team getting back on track which they will undoubtedly do under our Hall of Fame Coach. And baby boy no one cares what your clueless alarm tells you, the youthful nature of the team is a fact not an argument. And last season, by any standard was a fantastic season wherein we stayed ranked all year long. We lost in the first round just as many teams do occasionally who have spent many years in a row going to the tournament. So quit dissing last years team. Your impact on the success of the team is 0. You were once banned and I didn't miss you. Crawl back under that rock.

Takin' a shot at the legend. Good for you kid! I have not the time nor the appetite to engage in a minor league scrum with you. I gave most of my time to 1989. Thanks for informing me that my presence is annoying you. That's a form of control you know? It's not too late to release the angst. Be free of CB!

P.S.

"And last season, by any standard was a fantastic season"

You are absolutely clueless on the topic at hand.


T


...:cool:

[C0|dB|00ded]

What some people are not taking into consideration is this team has 1 guy that has been around more than a year. Dont underestimate the importance of guys that have been there and done that. Coach has always had them around until this year.

I definitely am not! And I've stated as such. I do believe we've lost our Play Angry culture. I'm just waiting for the leaders to hold a Baptist Church Tent Revival at 1AM in the practice gym where we see the entire team come to Christ.


T


...:cool:

[C0|dB|00ded]

- You are painting such an inaccurate picture of Coach Marshall’s history. You make it sound like every player Marshall has ever coached prior to last year walked in the door ready to “play angry” the minute coach told them to. That is just not true. Ironically, play angry-the concept you claim to know so much about- was adopted because of how soft and nice he thought his team (which at the time included a young Fred and Ron) was playing which is completely opposite of your point of view that those guys never needed to grow or develop into that mindset. Marshall never needed a “magic wand” the last 20 years because he never had 9 newcomers at once.

- Simply mentioning offense is not putting it on a high pedestal. Offense comes from defense? Cool, nobody said it didn’t. All that’s being said here is that at some point you have to score. I’m sure Coach Marshall has run offensive drills and has drawn up offensive plays his whole career like any other coach, including the defense first coaches, so let’s not act like me saying you have to put the ball in the hole is some outrageous statement.

- Reading your posts is like witnessing an alternate reality. Did VCU have a good game? Yes! But you completely overstate how hard they played. VCU caught a lot of breaks to help them blow us out.

- 19 weeks isn’t enough for most freshman. A whole regular season isn’t enough for most freshman. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to be a freshman, and to have a team full of freshman, in college basketball.

- Just because you constantly talk about “play angry” basketball doesn’t mean you are the only one who knows what it is or who can define it, so I don’t need to read your repetitive straw man posts to understand it. Play angry means to play the game the right way, be the first to the floor for a loose ball, wanting it more than your opponents, offensively (which you hate, but this is a part of play angry too) turning down good shots for great shots, and just overall having the discipline to do what you are supposed to do as close to 100% of the time as possible. The highest profile program that usually plays that way is Tom Izzo’s Michigan state teams. But John Caliparis old Memphis teams use to play that way, Butler under Brad Stevens played that way, Cincy usually plays that way, West Virginia under Bob Huggins historically plays that way, John B (can’t spell his last name off the top of my head) at Michigan has them playing that way, I haven’t seen South Carolina this year but Frank Martin’s SC team the year they had Sindarius Thornwell played angry. I’m sure there are a lot of programs that neither you or I watch very closely who play angry too.

At this point we are just arguing in circles. I will respond one last time to what has become two clearly entrenched positions. I believe there is a disturbing trend in our program, entering its second season, whereby players exhibit a pattern of softness (last game collapses, folding after opponent runs, low defensive intensity, etc) and I have not seen anything convincing me that the trend has abated. You believe that the late game collapses, defensive failures, and otherwise greatly reduced quality of Play Angry exhibited over the past two seasons, with completely different players, at completely different experience levels, is an unrelated, uncorrelated, random anomaly and not a single thing has changed with regards to urgency in how the players play or the coaches coach. Everything is just hunky dory as we wait for the greenness to wear off so we can march to our next Final Four.

"play angry-the concept you claim to know so much about- was adopted because of how soft and nice he thought his team (which at the time included a young Fred and Ron)"

You are incorrect on all counts and apparently blissfully ignorant - or feigning as such - of the Gregg Marshall Way.

http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/99385/playing-angry-the-marshall-way

Wichita State’s Gregg Marshall will continue to implore his team to “play angry” simply because he’s always coached that way.

“We had this thing before play angry,” Tyson Waterman said. “It was called the Marshall Law.”

Back in 1998, Waterman played point guard on Marshall’s first team at Winthrop. Prior to Marshall’s arrival at the Rock Hill, South Carolina, school, the Eagles had never won a Big South Conference title in its 13 years of existence.

“His biggest thing was nobody respects you, he made you feel like you’re not respected no matter what,” Waterman said. “We won [12] straight and he was still like 'nobody respects you.' He’ll find a stat that makes you keep from being complacent. He’ll find a reason to make you think that you’re not doing nothing.”

Waterman, who was just hired this month as an assistant coach at Southeastern Louisiana, recalled when he found himself on the wrong side of Marshall sending a message. Waterman had just dropped 22 points against Maryland’s Steve Blake in an overtime loss and was feeling high on himself. So much so that he was late for a practice before Winthrop played at Campbell.

Marshall sat Waterman out of the starting lineup because of it. And when his point guard sulked his way through a poor first-half performance, Marshall sat him the rest of the game.

“That’s when I learned you have to play the right way, the Marshall way, or other than that I wasn’t going to play,” Waterman said. “It was that simple.”

Waterman said Marshall hasn’t changed much since then. He’s still taking a roster largely devoid of blue-chip players. He reminds them that nobody rated them as four- and five-star players. And he’s turned the Shockers into a program that nobody wants to play.

“These are guys that a lot of people wouldn’t take, and that’s who he takes,” Waterman said. “He doesn’t care about height, he doesn’t care about size. He loves length, but at the same time he’ll take you just if you have ability and a hard work ethic. That’s what he likes, guys that are going to come to work.”

And he wants players that work like he works. Waterman said Marshall’s preparation is what sets him apart from others. He’s obsessive over details and treats every opponent the same.

That’s how Wichita State stayed unbeaten even as the pressure to keep its winning streak going kept mounting.

“He’s going to prepare for you just like you’re Kentucky,” Waterman said. “And he’s going to expect you to play with the level of effort just like it’s Kentucky. If not, you’re going to sit. Trust me I know.”

"Reading your posts is like witnessing an alternate reality. Did VCU have a good game? Yes! But you completely overstate how hard they played..."




"19 weeks isn’t enough for most freshman. A whole regular season isn’t enough for most freshman. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to be a freshman..."

*sigh* I never said or implied anything that would lead a rational person to infer that I hold the opinion that 19 weeks is sufficient to fully develop a freshman player. But it's a lifetime for conveying the correct amount of effort and toughness necessary with respect to Gregg Marshall's historical timeline. A lifetime...

"Play angry means to play the game the right way, be the first to the floor for a loose ball, wanting it more than your opponents, offensively (which you hate, but this is a part of play angry too) turning down good shots for great shots, and just overall having the discipline to do what you are supposed to do as close to 100% of the time as possible."

Naw, you got it half right. Play Angry has been defined by some television commentators as such but it originally meant playing at maximum effort for the duration of your shift and being a borderline bully on the floor, the glass, or anywhere else the ball is temporarily positioned. Play Angry at 11 appears like desperation from the seats. You can see it in the player's eyes. They are focused and hungry like a pack of wolves. It doesn't matter what the score is or what we're shooting, but I can guarangoddamtee you that the opponent's shooting percentage is ****. It ain't 50%... LOL!

I disagree with your list of schools who you think Play Angry. I'm not surprised I disagree as I do not think you understand what Play Angry is yet.

I would add that SIU-C employed a version of Play Angry. Naw, I'll commit to saying they played the real deal. Their teams were nearly bereft of offensive which made it difficult to watch. But they won a ton of games using it. Hmmm....... Had they enjoyed a couple consistent 3-pt shooters, they could have made multiple Final Four runs.

Even though we don't agree on where we're at or where we're headed (hopefully temporarily), we can agree on the fact that we both want the Shockers to return to the days of yore.


T


...:cool:

[another shocker]

yep.. he was gregg marshall's most vocal critic in year one/two of the marshall regime. here he is again. same thing.

[TheShocktocles]

The only one associated with the Shockers who has lost his edge is the entitled infantile moron who started this gross overreaction of a thread who needs the instant gratification of a binker in his mouth for a season or two so that the intelligent heavy lifters who are most of the rest of us patiently await the team getting back on track which they will undoubtedly do under our Hall of Fame Coach. And baby boy no one cares what your clueless alarm tells you, the youthful nature of the team is a fact not an argument. And last season, by any standard was a fantastic season wherein we stayed ranked all year long. We lost in the first round just as many teams do occasionally who have spent many years in a row going to the tournament. So quit dissing last years team. Your impact on the success of the team is 0. You were once banned and I didn't miss you. Crawl back under that rock.

Oh man! Roosters coming home to roost. This post had me laughing. LOL

[WstateU]

[DJShocker10]

That is the way I read the situation as well. I included the word presumably because I remember Marshall believing that was the case. If I’m misremembering I apologize. But it still doesn’t change the point of the post. There are many similarities between the two teams, though this season we have much more talent IMO.

[WstateU]

"Klingon attack, set shields!"

[WstateU]

Solid post otherwise, but I agree on the booing; been going to games since I was knee-high to a grasshopper and I've never heard WU or WSU fans boo our team... and the 90's teams were boo worthy.

[Kung Wu]

I agree. I have never heard our fans boo our own team. Never.

[Ashockalypse]

The only one associated with the Shockers who has lost his edge is the entitled infantile moron who started this gross overreaction of a thread who needs the instant gratification of a binker in his mouth for a season or two so that the intelligent heavy lifters who are most of the rest of us patiently await the team getting back on track which they will undoubtedly do under our Hall of Fame Coach. And baby boy no one cares what your clueless alarm tells you, the youthful nature of the team is a fact not an argument. And last season, by any standard was a fantastic season wherein we stayed ranked all year long. We lost in the first round just as many teams do occasionally who have spent many years in a row going to the tournament. So quit dissing last years team. Your impact on the success of the team is 0. You were once banned and I didn't miss you. Crawl back under that rock.