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Rebuilding is being confused with losing our edge? With so many newcomers to the program, it takes more than the 6 months they've been on campus to assimilate to the Play Angry culture. So many think this is a sprint rather than a marathon. With that said, some people are natural bulldogs and have that intensity we love to see. Others don't have it but are capable of learning it. And then we have those who aren't naturals or incapable of learning and adapting to the culture. These are the ones who have no business on the team - looks like we already had one leave in Moore, a couple of more are a possibility. I don't think we've lost our edge, I'll give it time, and the weak minded who lack MTXE will find themselves out of a scholarship soon enough. I'll be patient.
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You're taking this team, who lost 90% it's roster, and is still trying to figure things out, and comparing their CURRENT efficiency to prior team's YEAR END efficiency ratings. Come on now.Originally posted by SB Shock View Post
Those past teams had established roles and experience in the program.
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You know it's bad when KC is a voice of reason.Deuces Valley.
... No really, deuces.
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"Enjoy the ride."
- a smart manComment
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It still a snapshot of where the program is as of today and some perspective of how much improvement it needs to become relevant once again. It would be nice to see this team actually get better offensively and defensively as they have their roles more defined and as they gain experience - but that has not happened yet.Originally posted by MelvinLoudermilk View Post
As Taylor Eldridge has pointed out
Since halftime of the Baylor game, Wichita State offense has been scoring at 0.90 PPP, That's 5.5 games, 220 minutes and 384 possessions.
Even with the LaTech & Davidson stinkers baked in, WSU offense was at a healthy 1.08 PPP before that.Comment
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Turtles win races. Every freaking time. Even in college basketball . . . for most.Comment
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Bro... for the 11th time, Play Angry was often nonexistent LAST year. Read my comments on page one.Originally posted by Shox The Revenant View Post
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People need to reflect on two games last year for ultimate clarity on the issue: @ Houston and our NCAA 1-and-done. Then balance that with the lack of ferocity and urgency with this year's team and either we are witnessing an evolution (devolution) in Gregg Marshall's coaching style, we are suffering a reversion to the mean with regards to our diamond-in-the-rough recruiting results, or we are witnessing the Peter Principle in high definition.
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#157.1
pie n eye commented
49 minutes ago
I don't know who you are; I don't know what you want. If you are looking for agreement I can tell you that I have none. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills - skills I have acquired over a very long career - skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let my theory go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not argue with you, I will not troll you; but if you don't, I will mark you, I will corner you, and I will own you.Or D) none of the above
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Ok?
You’re more than welcome to your theory but I don’t buy it.
Evolution (devolution) of Gregg Marshall’s coaching style? Sure, most people change over time but he seems like basically the same guy to me. He’s won everywhere he’s been. The idea that because he chilled out slightly he all of a sudden forgot how to coach seems unlikely.
Suffering a reversion to the mean in our diamond in the rough recruiting results? How many true diamonds in the rough have we found? Fred and Ron, maybe Cle? Three in ten years. I don’t buy that Marshall woke up one day and could no longer recognize talent. You yourself have been high on several of the recruits this year, specifically Stevenson and Echinique.
Peter Principle. Not sure what you’re implying. That Marshall has reached his level of incompetence now that we’re in the American? Good luck with that.
Plenty of people have rationally explained the struggles we’re experiencing this year without resorting to doomsday scenarios.
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Yes. Last year’s team was soft as pudding. This year has been a continuation. I’ll put up with twenty losses if we are grinding it out and making it hard for the other team. We laid down for VCU.Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded View Post
I will say that bad offensive possessions are part of our bad defense. However, maintaining composure on offense when you’re down is part of a toughness mentality, So it is all interrelated.
Wichita State, home of the All-Americans.Comment
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I love how in this post and in this entire thread you are listing everything other than the obvious issue we are having right now, which is our youth. Why aren’t we “playing angry”? Youth! (You: But we weren’t playing angry last year either; Me: All those guys who were soft last year left giving us a new team full of freshman and new teams full of freshman suck).....Why do we go through stretches where we look like we can’t score on a D1 level? Youth! (You: But you don’t understand, I’m not talking about making shots, I’m just talking about guys who will run through a wall, and eat glass, and drink spoiled milk, and not wipe their ass after they poop to show coach how angry and manly they are; Me: no matter how big of a hard on you have for play angry, it’s still relevant to discuss other aspects of the game in this thread. Bringing those other elements up doesn’t mean that we don’t understand what you are trying to say.) ....Why are we bipolar and one minute looking pretty darn good but the next looking like complete trash? Youth! (You: But we lost Jan’s, and coach doesn’t look mean anymore, and blah blah blah blah blah ; Me: Youth)Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded View Post
Coming into this season, Coach Marshall and the CBB media didn’t predict that we would struggle because Coach brought in a crap load of players who don’t fit into the “play angry” mold. They predicted that we would struggle because teams with a core of non McDonald’s All American freshman are usually bad. They were right, which is why we stink. All those things that you say last years team lacked and this years team currently lacks will come back as this group gets older.Comment
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You've read my musings fairly well and I thank you for your time.Originally posted by 1989 View Post
Here is where our vectors cross, albeit very briefly:
You are hypothesizing that two completely separate teams which display an oddly similar soft vibe are not sharing a common cause. You also may be intimating (whether you realize it or not) that a lack of offense is contributory to Play Angry.You: But we weren’t playing angry last year either; Me: All those guys who were soft last year left giving us a new team full of freshman and new teams full of freshman suck).
I am aware that we can look "good" when we are hitting our shots. But looking "good" and Playing Angry are two completely different things. Playing Angry (or it's lack thereof) is most noticeable when we AREN'T hitting our shots. When we go cold what happens: Do we turtle and watch a cascade of balls rain into our bucket like it's 10 feet wide or do we start playing at such a frenetic pace that the opposition is sped up to the point of total chaos throwing balls to cheerleaders (like what VCU, Houston, etc. did to us).
Last year it was, "We don't have the athletes." Well I can tell you that this year we DO have the athletes.
There's also another premise that people are proposing unknowingly. If we aren't seeing Play Angry, it's because either A) It's difficult to learn, or B) it requires a player to age. I reject both of those suggestions. Play Angry is taught within the first couple practices. You run full blast until your chest is heaving and then you make a fist. Rinse/repeat. When you see a lose ball you dive to it instinctively. When you see a weak dribbler you go for the steal. When you see your teammate engaging the dribbler you help out and go for the steal. All you can think about is getting your hands on that ball. It's your ball. They don't want it as badly as you do. You will die for that ball. That's how Fred played. Maybe there's no such thing as Play Angry, maybe it's Play Fredley. If that's the truth we are in for a world of Creighton,... I mean mediocrity.
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This year is a difficult year. First Landry went professional when almost all of us, weren't thinking that way. Then Austin transferred. That was a double blow that we didn't see coming. Then a Teddy was declared inelibible for a 3rd blow. Teddy was important to have this year, because he could rebound and put the ball in the hole. By himself, he isn't going to save the program and next year depends on others improving too. However, if we had Teddy to go along with Markis, and a couple of others, we might have maintained our NCAA streak and competed for the American Championship. We lost shooters and scorers that we weren't prepared for.
However, JE would have been one of the pieces we need either way. He was coming along and we needed him even with Teddy, etc. He was showing improvement, and he doesn't improve if he doesn't play. Our other 5's have shown some potential, but haven't progressed like JE.
Both TA not becoming eligible and JE's injury (etc.) have been blows that this young team isn't prepared for. With all of our good years, where injuries weren't a problem, we had veterans each year, and depth, this year has been bad luck and bad blows after bad blows. We better just be prepared for the rebuild to take some time.Comment
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"playing angry" is an intangible that can't be measured. in addition, you may have one or two players doing
their level best to play that way but it takes the entire team playing together that way consistently. We
certainly had a flicker in the first half of the Baylor game of what this team is capable of. Last years team
simply relied to much on their offense and, as a team, got too lazy on defense from time to time. I, for one, want
to put last year behind us and I am NOT ready to give up on THIS years team nor do I believe GM ever will.
Simply put, except for maybe ES who plays his a** off the rest of the team needs to put forth the same kind of effort
every minute of every game..........that is all any of us can ask for.Comment
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You are right. I do believe that the soft vibe from this group is for a different reason than last years group. Don’t get me wrong, a guy like IPC or Mitgaard may be soft for the same reasons some of last years guys were (which is more of an inherent softness), but when you talk about guys like Burton, Stevenson, Udeze, Dennis, Rod, and Torres, those guys aren’t soft. They just need to learn how to play at this level. Their problem is that they are only 12 games into their careers.Originally posted by C0|dB|00ded View Post
When our shots aren’t falling what happens? Well often times we actually get stops for a while. We have had multiple games this year where during our own shooting slumps we were getting stop after stop after stop. But play angry or not, you can only get so many stops before the opponent starts hitting shots and before we need to start hitting ours as well. Not every issue we have is about being “soft” or not “playing angry”. Some of it is legit us sucking offensively.
You rejecting those suggestions = you rejecting the truth. Most teams in the country preach play angry, but they just call it something different. These teams and coaches know that freshman struggle with playing hard on this level and most coaches have some sort of quote out there referrencing that fact. Playing hard (i.e. playing angry) is a skill. Just like any other skill, it needs time to develop. Those specific examples that you just gave of play angry type things are actually good examples of how youth can suck at it. When you see a weak dribbler go for a steal? Putting aside the fact that I don’t think coach wants guys to go for a steal every time they see a weak dribbler, some of these guys couldn’t even identify what a foul is on this level, so why assume that they can identify a weak dribbler? Help out and go for a steal? But that requires leaving your man. Freshman have a hard time understanding that defense isn’t just about your match up and that you need to help your teammates out. That lack of understanding isn’t a lack of effort, but rather a lack of good basketball IQ.Comment
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