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We've lost our edge

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  • #1

    We've lost our edge

    Some might say we lost it a while back...

    I've seen it innumerable times at every level in the competitive sports world. Once the pay/success gets to a certain point, the edge dissipates. You need a very fine edge to win at Wichita State. Everybody was starving back in 2007. Now our coach is wealthy and we are recruiting players who think they can come in and ride on the "magic" that players like Wessel, Baker, and VanVleet bled out their eyes to create. EVERYBODY must buy in - heart and soul - every game - to win.


    T


    ...:cool:
    Tags: None
    • Likes 3
  • #2
    I think players simply just need to make shots. If the ball ain't going in the hole...everything else suffers. Gotta see that ball go through the net!
    FINAL FOURS:
    1965, 2013

    NCAA Tournament:
    1964, 1965, 1976, 1981, 1985, 1987, 1988, 2006, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2021

    NIT Champs - 1 (2011)

    AP Poll History of Wichita St:
    Number of Times Ranked: 157
    Number of Times Ranked #1: 1
    Number of Times Top 5: 32 (Most Recent - 2017)
    Number of Times Top 10: 73 (Most Recent - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017)

    Highest Recent AP Ranking:
    #3 - Dec. 2017
    #2 ~ March 2014

    Highest Recent Coaches Poll Ranking:
    #2 ~ March 2014
    Finished 2013 Season #4
    • Likes 1

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    • C0|dB|00ded
      #2.1
      C0|dB|00ded commented
      December 8, 2018, 05:28 PM
      Editing a comment
      We made an awful lot of shots last year...


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      ...:cool:
  • #3
    I disagree we've lost our edge due to success and pay increases. A combination of poor class management by HCGM and incoming recruits who simply have not lived up to the hype or expectations has ruined this year. One issue I see is that HCGM is great at identifying guards, but big men have been an issue under his tenure. We either bring in big men who are athletic and can jump out of the gym but can't play a lick of basketball to save their life, or, we bring in big men with terrific fundamentals and skill but absolutely have no athleticism. If this year's signing class can make an immediate impact next season, Teddy comes back strong and pissed and a few of the promising freshman on this year's team avoid a sophomore slump and take that next jump like FVV and RB from their freshman to sophomore years, I think we'll make some noise again.
    • Likes 1

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    • #4
      “The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.”

      Said some smartypants about a hundred years ago...
      • Likes 3

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      • #5
        I don't think we have lost our edge. It's still basketball. You got to be able to put the ball in the basket. Last year we had guys that could shoot but could not guard. This year we have improved defensively but don't have as many shooters or scorers. And having 9 new players to Div 1 basketball does not help. When school is out for the semester a lot of these guys need to be in the gym shooting.

        Comment

        • proshox
          #5.1
          proshox commented
          December 8, 2018, 06:51 PM
          Editing a comment
          Last year’s defensive issues had a lot to do with coaching stubbornness. Play one post with McDuffie at the four and many of the issues go away.
          • Likes 1
      • #6
        Enjoy the jump...

        CarrierSwimCall.jpg
        "You Just Want to Slap The #### Outta Some People"
        • Likes 1

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        • #7
          I think that's a bit of an overreaction. It feels that way because we got our asses kicked in a way that we haven't witnessed for a decade. I feel like coach has been rejuvenated by the challenge this year compared to last year. I don't think the score today reflects this team. Yeah, it seemed like they were playing without intensity and uninspired today but I think that was the product of a crazy young team being a bit overwhelmed by a veteran savvy team.

          Think about this whole offseason. We lose 6 seniors, a guy to the NBA, 2 transfers with the one we all know would have been the 1-2 punch with McDuffie, then lose a prized recruit. This offseason rained sh*t on our Shocks. When you think about it, it's amazing we're 4-4. We're playing with pups and one senior that can be solid if he cuts out erratic shots and play.

          We've got the guys who will bleed their eyes out like the guys in the past. Erik Stevenson seems to embody it the most so far and I'm hopeful the rest will catch on as well. Wessel, Baker and Van Vleet were truly exceptional but even they weren't so heavily relied upon the way the young guys are this season.
          • Likes 4

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          • #8
            9 of the players who played today hadn’t played a single minute for WSU before this season. 6 of which are true freshman. Players don’t just magically become good when they put on a WSU Jersey. It takes time. Expecting them to be good this early on is unfair and unreasonable.
            • Likes 6

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            • C0|dB|00ded
              #8.1
              C0|dB|00ded commented
              December 8, 2018, 05:27 PM
              Editing a comment
              Playing hard doesn't require time, it only requires commitment. There are several ways to obtain commitment from your players. I believe fear was the previous most utilized tool. Our coaches aren't that scary anymore.


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          • #9
            Originally posted by Jhook89 View Post
            9 of the players who played today hadn’t played a single minute for WSU before this season. 6 of which are true freshman. Players don’t just magically become good when they put on a WSU Jersey. It takes time. Expecting them to be good this early on is unfair and unreasonable.
            Actually when they talk about edge - they are talking more about the program direction as a whole (at least IMO). You get to this point because of recruiting misses, player transfers and general mindset of the program. Nobody would ever say this team is “playing angry”.

            But, being that said there are 7 teams in the top 20 of Ken Pom that have comparable experience levels as WSU who are having good years. We have some players in this program who have been here for a year that don’t get counted towards that “experience” metric who WSU is getting zero return on for the investment in them.
            • Likes 1

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            • #10
              Originally posted by SB Shock View Post

              Actually when they talk about edge - they are talking more about the program direction as a whole (at least IMO). You get to this point because of recruiting misses, player transfers and general mindset of the program. Nobody would ever say this team is “playing angry”.

              But, being that said there are 7 teams in the top 20 of Ken Pom that have comparable experience levels as WSU who are having good years. We have some players in this program who have been here for a year that don’t get counted towards that “experience” metric who WSU is getting zero return on for the investment in them.
              I think we are playing angrier this year than last year. The first half defense of Baylor was text book playing angry. Even the first half of this game had the angry attitude, we just couldn't hit shots
              • Likes 4

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              • #11
                just one game.. a lot of youngins that will make us excited soon. the key is the grind and how they bounce back. a lackluster effort against jacksonville and i’ll start to worry.
                • Likes 3

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                • #12
                  We have way too many people going into the sophomore class. Class distribution has been terrible the last few years. We may lose a few guys after this year, but it’s still overloaded. Shoulda signed another JUCO and a senior transfer.

                  Comment

                  • #13
                    Austin Reaves... The one that got away
                    • Likes 2

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                    • C0|dB|00ded
                      #13.1
                      C0|dB|00ded commented
                      December 8, 2018, 05:25 PM
                      Editing a comment
                      Austin Reaves... The one that bailed.

                      *fixed*


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                  • #14
                    Originally posted by choida View Post
                    Austin Reaves... The one that got away
                    You don't miss guys who can't make commitments and hold to them. We're better off without guys who can't show dedication and loyalty to a program that has given them so much including opportunity.

                    Comment

                    • proshox
                      #14.1
                      proshox commented
                      December 9, 2018, 04:10 PM
                      Editing a comment
                      Maybe we should ask why things were allowed to get toxic enough to run off a player like Austin...
                      • Likes 1
                  • #15
                    And this is the kind of thing I hate to read...
                    "We came out very lackadaisical, offensive glass, defensive glass, transition," Stevenson said. "We weren't locked in. We were blowing sets. We were just lucky to be in that game."

                    WHY was the team lackadaisical? Why weren't they "locked in"? No excuse for that at ANY time, in ANY season. This is Division I basketball. And, even if you're not going to play, on some days during a growth period, like a Division I team, you've got to be determined, dedicated, and locked in!
                    • Likes 2

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                    • C0|dB|00ded
                      #15.1
                      C0|dB|00ded commented
                      December 8, 2018, 05:31 PM
                      Editing a comment
                      See my above comment on fear. The old Shocker team would be in the gym the moment the plane landed until the wee hours. There would be massive repercussions.


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                      Last edited by C0|dB|00ded; December 8, 2018, 05:40 PM.
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