Wichita State vs Appalachian State

[Shocker1976]

Had the opportunity to watch the Shockers play Davidson and App State in person during the Charleston Classic; came away convinced that Erik Stevenson is playing the best complete basketball game of all the players on the Shocker roster. I do not understand why Marshall does not start Erik but look forward to watching him develop into a future Shocker All Star.

[wufan]

SHJ better than ES defensively ??? ES shut down Davidson' star guard while the other one went off for
33 with SHJ guarding him most of the time. ES is a FAR better defensive player than SHJ. You saw which one
GM took out the last possession against App st. Having said that I truly hope SHJ gets things figured out and
starts moving the ball around better. He is someone who should be able to use his quickness to move
without the ball to get open shots for himself. Wish them BOTH success !

I’m not unimpressed with ES defense. I believe he will, in time, be a much better defender than SHJ.

[wufan]

Are there any statistics out there that measure bad shots?

I’m positive that HCGM tracks that. Maybe SHJ can make more bad shots than ES can make good shots? Personally, I think ES, SHJ, and Torres are all ~35% 3 point shooters. I also believe MM is a 35% shooter. Everyone will approach the mean as the season progresses.

[B1ShockFan]

I am also sure ES will improve but I feel he is as good or better defender now, plays under control, great rebounder from the guard position. ES has a great future here as a Shocker.

[wufan]

Let me put it this another way. SHJ is averaging 36 mpg, which is a lot! He’s taking 24%of our shots, but he’s also playing 18%of the total minutes. That’s not horrible for one of two seniors.

ES and JB are averaging 27 mpg. That’s a TON for two freshman and a testimate to how good they are. I’m thinking they are probably near their max for PT though. That means that SHJs only minute replacement is Ricky, who’s averaging 13 mpg. He is currently not better was than SHJ.

So, yes you can call out SHJ for taking bad shots or too many shots. That’s fair, but he will continue to play 30+ mpg this year so long as DD keeps fouling and Teddy isn’t eligible. Even if those things change, he’s still going to get 25+, so please stop acting like there’s some great option out there ready to put SHJ on the bench for 25 mpg.

[ShockTalk]

Some of these freshmen are having to learn multiple positions and play a lot of minutes. ES the 2/3, JB the 1/3, DD 2/4. Even RT has played a little other than the 1.

[Shockm]

You saw which one GM took out the last possession against App st. !

Coach made a strategic move to replace a 6 footer with a 6’5 player who has an 84” wingspan at a time in the game where Most likely a 3 pt. Shot would be taken. Not necessarily a move because of Samajae’s bad defense.

[ShockerFever]

Let me put it this another way. SHJ is averaging 36 mpg, which is a lot! He’s taking 24%of our shots, but he’s also playing 18%of the total minutes. That’s not horrible for one of two seniors.

ES and JB are averaging 27 mpg. That’s a TON for two freshman and a testimate to how good they are. I’m thinking they are probably near their max for PT though. That means that SHJs only minute replacement is Ricky, who’s averaging 13 mpg. He is currently not better was than SHJ.

So, yes you can call out SHJ for taking bad shots or too many shots. That’s fair, but he will continue to play 30+ mpg this year so long as DD keeps fouling and Teddy isn’t eligible. Even if those things change, he’s still going to get 25+, so please stop acting like there’s some great option out there ready to put SHJ on the bench for 25 mpg.

Have you been watching the games?

[wufan]

Have you been watching the games?

Yep. I’ve seen all the games and the scrimmage twice. Is there something I said that was incorrect?

[Shockm]

Delete

[ShockerFever]

Yep. I’ve seen all the games and the scrimmage twice. Is there something I said that was incorrect?

What asset does SHJ have that warrants him that many minutes if, like you agreed with, he takes bad shots and too many shots? His defense? lol His assist making? lol


You said his volume is not horrible compared to minutes played. Well, it actually is when he's only making 32% of the team's total 25% of shots per game. That's astoundingly bad and inefficient basketball.

[Shockm]

Coach Marshall maybe?

[ShockerFever]

That didn't answer the question. In fact, I don't even know what you're answering to.

[wufan]

What asset does SHJ have that warrants him that many minutes if, like you agreed with, he takes bad shots and too many shots? His defense? lol His assist making? lol


You said his volume is not horrible compared to minutes played. Well, it actually is when he's only making 32% of the team's total 25% of shots per game. That's astoundingly bad and inefficient basketball.

Who are you going to replace him with that is shooting or passing the ball better?

[ShockerFever]

Who are you going to replace him with that is shooting or passing the ball better?

Why are you answering questions with questions?

[ShockerFever]

And who is shooting better? Everybody on the team besides Torres is shooting better than him, with significantly less shots. He's also the worst 3 point shooter on the team, minus the 0-5 of Torres. His assist numbers were skewed from the Providence game where literally him and McDuffie just passed it back and forth to each other on the wings and McD went off.

He doesn't facilitate the offense at all. He shoots the most absurd shots. He averages 4 airballs/game. Maybe he wouldn't have to shoot a shot-clock beating 25-footer every other time if we had somebody to run the offense. I also fail to understand his superior defense that you seem to be propping.

[wufan]

Not true. I already offered all the statistics for every player that plays the 1 and the 2. Only Burton is shooting better from the field. No one is shooting better from 3.

Maybe his assist numbers are propped up by one game. Maybe Stevenson’s shooting numbers are being propped up by one game.

[ShockerFever]

Stevenson's numbers are being propped up by 1 game? lol they're actually being drug down by 1 game. I don't think he's gonna shoot 1-10 from 3 anymore. And at least he learned from that, and didn't follow it up with another "let it fly" performance.

SHJ doesn't need to score for this team to win. Not at the shots it takes for him to do so anyways.

Burton can start at the 1, ES at the 2. Both players have better shooting numbers at this point, with 1/2 as many shots launched up.

[wufan]

Why are you answering questions with questions?

Because I agree that his play warrants some criticism, but the offered solutions are to replace his minutes with players that deserve equal criticism (based on statistics). So, the argument is: SHJ takes bad shots. His minutes should be replaced by X, Y, or Z.

My response is: Players X, Y, and Z are statistically similar or not as good and are already playing huge minutes. So that solution doesn’t make any sense when looking at the current roster.

All I can really tell is that you have no argument and you’re just pissing and moaning because that’s what you do. You ask if I’ve seen any games. That’s just a tactic because you have nothing of value to say.

So so tell me, who are you going to replace him with and how many minutes are they going to get?

[WuDrWu]

1) If Ricky Torres doesn't come on, SHJ is going to play, and play a bunch of minutes. He just has to unless we're going to play big, like Mo, Jamie, Duff, Eric and JB. I don't see that happening.

2) Teddy would help lessen minutes, which would be a good thing. But more so, he's the one guy that can go get his shot when the clock runs out, which is where a decent number of SHJ's bad shots originate.

[shoxlax]

Everything Doc says just he said it in less words than I would

[ShockerFever]

Because I agree that his play warrants some criticism, but the offered solutions are to replace his minutes with players that deserve equal criticism (based on statistics). So, the argument is: SHJ takes bad shots. His minutes should be replaced by X, Y, or Z.

My response is: Players X, Y, and Z are statistically similar or not as good and are already playing huge minutes. So that solution doesn’t make any sense when looking at the current roster.

All I can really tell is that you have no argument and you’re just pissing and moaning because that’s what you do. You ask if I’ve seen any games. That’s just a tactic because you have nothing of value to say.

So so tell me, who are you going to replace him with and how many minutes are they going to get?

So Players X Y Z that are statistically similar are not enough to replace him? Even though they don't fire up twice as many shots which are essentially non-recorded turnovers? Do you not understand that an air ball is statistically a shot but in reality a turnover?

Sometimes it goes beyond statistics. SHJ is a JUCO basketball player. He does JUCO things, makes JUCO decisions. Other players are doing things that aren't being recorded statistically that add more value to the team.

So you want an answer? Burton at the 1. ES at the 2. DD at the 3. MM at the 4. And JE at the 5.

Is that answer not acceptable enough for you?