The new hook-and-hold flagrant 1 rule

[jdmee]

According to the video and commentary, we are going to see a lot of flagrant 2 fouls called on layups this year. That does not make the game better.

I also do not see why the hook and hold is a flagrant foul and not just a common foul. There are far more harmful plays than that.

Hopefully it will stop some of those plays where a trailing defender goes up to "block" a fast break layup and ends up laying out the lead player going up for a layup. I think that is the intent and will make the game better and safer.

[wusphlash]

It was called last night in the K-State/Denver game. The announcers obviously didn’t know about the rule change and were completely perplexed why there was a flagrant one. Watching the replay you see the involved referee make an exaggerated gesture in reference to hooking. The replay also showed there really wasn't much there. This rule is going to unjustly penalize some team with a loss. Bad rule.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I also do not see why the hook and hold is a flagrant foul and not just a common foul. There are far more harmful plays than that.

Surely it's because the members of the rules committee are soulless bastards.

[ShockBand]

I get the intent, but it is going to be a cluster to call with any consistency. It will be like holding calls in football - happens nearly every play, just a matter of when it is or isn't called. Back in the 80s when I played junior high and high school football, we offensive linemen couldn't even turn our palms outward on blocking lest we would get called for holding. I imagine pass blocking is a lot easier when you can extend your arms and put your palms outward!

If they are going to call it, I think it should just be a common foul unless the severity escalates to such a level.

[Shocker_Power]

Hopefully it will stop some of those plays where a trailing defender goes up to "block" a fast break layup and ends up laying out the lead player going up for a layup. I think that is the intent and will make the game better and safer.

Wouldn't that already be an iintentional foul if called correctly? Same penalty?

[Shockm]

Two players get their arms hooked. Which way is the foul called?

One player will be moved away from a favorable position. That player will always be seen as the victim. The player gaining a positional advantage will always be the one called for the hook.

It's pretty straight forward and an easy foul to call. You call the flagrant foul on the stronger player. They're both trying to gain an advantage. The stronger player will gain the advantage and be called for the infraction. The rule rewards players who unsuccessfully try to gain an advantage.

I’m sure Aarg looked to se what happened prior to posting. But the Prov. Player pushed his elbow immediately into Dexter’s throat/neck and Dexter fought back for leverage to not be pushed out of position. Thus he hooked his arm under the PC players elbow and struggled for leverage. He was called for a Flagrant 1 foul which could have cost us the lead. The following two free throws, Dexter threw his near arm straight up in the air conceding position to the closer player. Easy rebound for PC. I guess that is what the rules committee wants to happen. Seems dumb.

[Kung Wu]

I just rewatched. Dexter's foul absolutely was a hook and hold. It's really obvious.

[Shockm]

No one has said it wasn’t a hook The question is whether it was dangerous. Some hook and holds are dangerous but not all. A common foul would suffice unless it is dangerous in which a F1 should be called.

[Kung Wu]

It's not the hook, it's the hook + hold that makes it egregious. That's two fouls in one. If you committed only the hook, well that's just one foul. You commit a hold, well that's also just a single foul. Unless excessive, neither of those is an F1. But this is a twofer. And whether it's dangerous or not really is whether it's a F1 or an F2. Just stop cheating by locking up a dude's arm -- I don't think it will be that hard to adjust to.

[ShockRef]

I just rewatched. Dexter's foul absolutely was a hook and hold. It's really obvious.

Kung, Nicely done and you are absolutely correct.

For those questioning the reasoning for the severity of the penalty, consider this - it was THE COACHES who approached the rules committee and requested the penalty be upgraded. They were adamant about penalizing the H & H and instructed the committee to increase the penalty to "get it out of the game."
Remember, "reduced physicality creates freedom of movement." That is the mantra of the committee and the coaches association is 100% on board with it.

That is all.

[Shockm]

We will just disagree. The F1 was supposedly because it is dangerous, not because it was a "twofer". (the example video that was shown earlier verifies that the hook and hold can be a dangerous foul but this one wasn't). All the front kid has to do is stick an elbow into your neck, and he has you with little recourse. Actually, that elbow is a foul but it gives the player a distinct advantage. As you can see in the very next foul, Dexter just puts his hands into the air because he doesn't want to fight for position and draw an F1 with free throws and the ball to the other team.

[Kung Wu]

The F1 was supposedly because it is dangerous, not because it was a "twofer".

No it wasn't. Danger has nothing to do with it. If you hook and hold it's automatically an F1 -- it has nothing to do with the severity. If upon review they find you did hook and hold --> F1. If it was really "dangerous" --> F2.

Hook and hold = automatic F1 at minimum.

[Shockm]

A hook without a hold should not be a foul anymore than the original elbow is a foul. If one elbow us a foul than the other elbow is a foul. The PC player delivered the elbow to Dexter’s neck first so he should have received the foul.

[RoyalShock]

I think part of it is psychology. If the option is there for a ref to call it as just a personal foul, some players may still try and get away with it. Coaches want it out of the game, so make sure if they hook and hold, it hurts.

[Dark Lord]

Surely it's because the members of the rules committee are soulless bastards.

Considering JD Collins is the head man, you are very much correct.

[Shoxfan11]

A hook and hold just occurred in this Purdue/Davidson game that wasn't called a flagrant 1. This is, of course, after having it called on us in our game against App State.

It's almost like a rule that the refs have no idea how to call and wildly differs from game to game shouldn't be a flagrant one.

[ShockTalk]

I thought all HH were F1 or F2 for more severe.