Missing pieces

[RoyalShock]

Through all the talk about "should we play zone" and "will Mantas come around", I think this team is missing two fundamental pieces: a strong interior post-up player and a proven shooter.

PT, RC and JT have been doing their best to "hold down the fort", but we don't have anyone who, when the ball goes to the wing, can consistently take an entry pass and score on a post move. (a Miller-esque player) JT could provide some of that as he matures. But having Stutz next year to go along with JT and presumably, Orukpe, should solve a lot of this.

Right now, MB is the only guy who, when he shoots, I have a degree of confidence the shot will fall. Not good for our barely 5'10" PG to have to shoulder that kind of load. He should be a secondary shooter, not our primary perimeter threat, Next year I expect Hawkins and Hannah to attract enough attention from the defense that Murry will be able to provide this. A tall order for a freshman.

I don't see our two primary flaws (from my vantage point) getting solved this year. We're going to have to hope one or two guys are hot enough from the perimeter that they will carry us or open up the post for some easier baskets or put-backs.

[Wushock41]

We have some of the same problems we had last year. Shortness in the post and a lack of physicality.

Whenever the opponent pushes us around as UMKC did last night, it takes our post players out of their element. Our folks that do like to mix it up, PJ for one, are simply too short to consistently go inside. Height, of which EO would have brought, could have overcome some of the lack of physical play but since that hasn't panned out, we once again are in trouble.

RC is very physical but seems to be struggling to get his shot off among taller opponents that he didn't face in JUCO. I think he will figure that out more as the season goes along.

I think we only had between 1 and 3 fast breaks Saturday night and we scored or shot throws on each one. Our "bigs" can out run more physical players but this team seems to, so far, really struggle when we play slow down and run sets to score.

We do seem to have much more heart this year and right now, that's what I'm hanging my hat on to see how we gell as the season progresses.

The horses are coming, be patient as I know you are.

:good:

[Maggie]

I agree with both of you. However, I think the biggest weakness right now is guard play. Under Marshall's system it is the 1, 2 and 3 spots that are the most important and let's face it – the players there are not getting it done. MB, right now, is the only person who plays one of those positions that has stepped up. But as solid as MB can be – he cannot carry the load.

As for the 4 and 5, I really can't complain to much. Aside from UMKC taking some rebounds from them late in the game – they have performed better than I expected. RC especially has attacked the glass and PT has been playing well.
JTD is probably the biggest offensive threat down low and he may need to spend a little more time down there this year – maybe X can teach him that fade away he used to take on the baseline. There is a very simple explanation as to why WSU was successful during Miller's senior season – the inside/outside game. They went through Miller a lot and in addition to having solid post moves Miller was/is a good passer. SO got a lot of open looks because of Miller. If JTD, PT, RC kick it out – who is going to knock down the shot? I thought the answer was Mantas – but he has really let me down.

Royal – I think you are right in that one of the freshmen, besides Hannah, is going to have to show he can knock down an open shot consistently – the first one to do that is going to get serious minutes. Hawkins has never been a great shooter – he is more of a "scorer" – but he does have a year to work on his shot. WSU will get taller at the 5 next year but who knows if that will translate into better. Stutz and Orukpe will have a learning curve. However, if they can provide some interior defense and rebounding to start the year (with the occasional basket) – I think that would be a good start.

As for this year, I don't know what the answer is or if there is an answer.

[SubGod22]

At least being seven feet tall in the paint demands some kind of respect. And may open up some passing lanes that haven't been there. How many times have our post players not sealed their man and the other team ends up with a steal? Our post players need to do a better job of sealing. Maybe that would give the guards a little more confidence passing the ball inside. I have no idea if that has any effect on the passes that are or aren't made, but it's something that's bothered me.

[shox7]

Royal, you are correct those are two huge weaknesses. The other that I see is the lack of a backup point guard to Matt. Without the backup HCGM is not pressing as agressively full court as he did at Winthrop in order to try to save Matt's legs. He is consistantly playing 35+ minutes a game.

When HCGM came here he said his teams at Winthrop created offense from their defense, we haven't been able to do that consistantly. In part to no effective backup for MB...

[Maggie]

At least being seven feet tall in the paint demands some kind of respect. And may open up some passing lanes that haven't been there. How many times have our post players not sealed their man and the other team ends up with a steal? Our post players need to do a better job of sealing. Maybe that would give the guards a little more confidence passing the ball inside. I have no idea if that has any effect on the passes that are or aren't made, but it's something that's bothered me.

In my opinion, being seven feet does not mean a whole lot at the D-1 level unless you have the skills to be a threat. Otherwise, the kid is just taking up space.

If RC, PT, JTD, etc are not sealing their man on a consistent basis and this is causing turnovers (and I do recall that Kennedy mentioned this a couple of times on Saturday) – that needs to change. I think it would affect the guard's confidence. I am sure the coaching staff will point that out – and there is no reason they can't quickly correct it.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Our missing pieces are a snarling 6'9" power forward with an arsenal of post moves, a smelly, immovable 7' brute with a 7'6" wingspan and a vertical better than 24 inches, a swift, elusive, skywalking, 6'6" guard who is a legit multi-threat.

There.. I think that about covers it.


T


...8)

[RoyalShock]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying there aren't more weakness on this team. I'm not looking at a perfect-world scenario. My point is that there are two fundamental voids we have, that any basketball team needs to be consistently competitive.

IMO, this team doesn't struggle to score because it lacks a backup point guard or a tightrope-walking high flyer. Those things are nice compliments.

This team needs scorers. The difference between our wins and losses this year is the 60-point threshold. If we had a post player that could manufacture a basket or a guard that we can run a play for to nail a three, it would hopefully eliminate these long scoring draughts we go through when the opponent goes on their inevitable run.

I know it's the past, but having Miller and Ogirri, that inside-outside combo, made our Sweet 16 season. They made everyone on the team look better.

[Maggie]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying there aren't more weakness on this team. I'm not looking at a perfect-world scenario. My point is that there are two fundamental voids we have, that any basketball team needs to be consistently competitive.

IMO, this team doesn't struggle to score because it lacks a backup point guard or a tightrope-walking high flyer. Those things are nice compliments.

This team needs scorers. The difference between our wins and losses this year is the 60-point threshold. If we had a post player that could manufacture a basket or a guard that we can run a play for to nail a three, it would hopefully eliminate these long scoring draughts we go through when the opponent goes on their inevitable run.

I know it's the past, but having Miller and Ogirri, that inside-outside combo, made our Sweet 16 season. They made everyone on the team look better.

I think you are right about the two main weaknesses on this team as compared to years past; however, what CGM really needs are more athletes across the board (preferably athletes that can shoot). It seems like they are on their way.

I know the rumors say Orukpe can "run like a deer" or whatever but what about Stutz? How is his mobility? In Marshall's system, he is going to have to get up and down the floor.

As an aside, what is up with Butler? I hear vague things on the pre and post game shows about him being cleared for practice (about a month ago) but he didn't think he is ready to play? For the record, I was fine with that at the time. Has that changed at all to anyone's knowledge? I have always supported Butler and thought he had some potential. While I don't know if he would get much playing time at this point anyway (I was really hoping he might get a shot given the foul trouble against UMKC) – has he told Marshall he is ready? And by that I mean other than checking in for a minute and fouling a guy.

[JohnDorian]

I think it's mostly psychological. He's probably worried that he'll tweak his knee/ankle or whatever the ligament was connected to.

[Maggie]

I think it's mostly psychological. He's probably worried that he'll tweak his knee/ankle or whatever the ligament was connected to.

You mean Butler? Well, he is not the only head case on the team. :(

If what you say is true – the kid needs to wake up. He either deals with his issues or he may end up (and should end up) playing somewhere else next year. I was glad he got a second chance but he seems to be blowing it and using injury as an excuse. I hate to say it but I no longer have any sympathy for the kid.

[t7017s]

I think its turnovers more than particular players or heights at positions. All our guys are guilty of lazy passing on a regular basis with maybe the exception of matt. He has had his share of turnovers from bad passes but they arent typically lazy so much as difficult to thread at his height. We also need penetration if you ask me. No matter who that comes from we need to pentrate for many reasons. Draw fouls and get starters on the bench really helps loosen things up. You keep the defense on its toes and keep players honest. Now I'm not saying lets pentrate ever single time down the court but it seemed obvious that we have needed penetration and crisp passing more than anything in all our losses this year. Also I think it would be advantageous to pull up for mid range shots when we penetrate. Just because someone penetrates does not mean they need to go all the way into the damn trees and get stuck without options. Lets just mix it up and not do the same things all the time. 30 3s is to many. Going down low all game is to much. Lets just mix it up and keep the defense guessing by mixing reasonable 3s, mid range shots, and down low layups. penetration open all these avenues up. Seems we live and die by one thing when we lose. That one thing may be different each game but the problem is we dont adjust we simply keep banging our heads against the wall and doing the same thing that isnt working over and over again. If we could just mix it up we wouldnt have these problems. Just my 2 cents... make of it what you will or dismiss it all together. The choice is yours. Variety is the spice of life so they say. Seems that would hold true on the court just the same. But for the love of god something has to be done about the lazy half assed passing that has plagued these guys for what seems forever. Even if we dont mix it up lets do something about the passing and our odds of winning games increases greatly. Its hard for teams to take advantage of opportunities if we dont give them the ball every other possession.

[ShockTalk]

I've always believed a team should try to hide their weaknesses and accentuate their strengths along with exploring every potential scoring opportunity. For whatever reason (and I'm sure CGM has good ones) we don't appear to be doing that. It drives me nuts that MB is getting the ball across half court with only 26 to 27 secords left on the shot clock, even when he is not pressured. If we're waiting for our offense to set up, we are also allowing the defense to set up. Pushing the ball up court more quickly will allow us to explore an additional scoring opportunity, IF IT'S THERE. I believe we have good team speed and seem to do better on the run. Playing a slower half court game exposes the weaknesses Royal has mentioned. Maybe we could break out of our shooting funk (Mantas in particular) if the players aren't "thinking" about it so much and just let it flow. PJ's game may also improve with this style. Comments?

[Capitol Shock]

I'm not worried.

[wsu789]

A lot of you appear to be feeling what I did after witnessing the Monmouth game--the stark realization that we just aren't very good. The fact is, if we shoot 33% from 3 and 45% from the field we will win more games than we lose. If we shoot below that, it will be a very, very long season.