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Shox D Didn't Get Worse

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  • #31
    Do you folks think Jans is a factor?
    Last year, NMSU ended at #124 in D on KenPom. Right now, NMSU is #14.
    Last year, WSU ended at #13 in D on KemPom. Right now, WSU is #107.


    • #32
      Metrics can never factor in the quickness of the opponents. AAC guards are WAY quicker than MVC guards. Maybe it's just me, but I thought the Shox perimeter D was playing further off the person they were guarding this year.

      That cuts down on dribble penetration and protects the front court guys from fouling, but it gives up easier shots from deep. The expected results from playing further off were there. Front court guys didn't often get into foul trouble and 3-pt FG defense was worse. It struck me that the consistent factor when somebody put up 30 on the Shox was that it was a perimeter guy who was quick enough to get into the lane, so the D played off him, and then the guy scorched us with 3's.

      The current officiating emphasis (freedom of movement) doesn't allow perimeter guys to knock offensive players off their routes, which was a big part of Baker's and VanVleet's D. Now the emphasis is on quicker, more mobile, and more agile perimeter players. That's not what the Shox have, except for SHJ, but that's another story.

      There's also better scouting and coaching in the AAC. Shox weren't trying to defend against a game plan put together by Greg Lansing or Paul Lusk, they were going up against Tubby Smith, Kelvin Sampson, Nick Cronin, etc. Add to that, the difference in personnel. It doesn't matter if an opponent can find a weakness if they don't have the personnel to take advantage of that weakness. The AAC has more players capable of taking advantage of opponents softer areas.

      It's the same players, the same defense, the same head coach. What changed was the level of the opponents and coaches in both OOC and conference play.
      The future's so bright - I gotta wear shades.
      We like to cut down nets and get sized for championship rings.


      • FadedCrown
        FadedCrown commented
        Editing a comment
        Shake Milton, non-conference Trae Young, Rob Gray have all killed us this season.

    • #33
      We just don’t “bother” anybody. For instance, Landry always looks like he is playing hard and cutting off drives, but his closeouts don’t actually challenge a shooter.


      • #34
        I think both sides of this argument hold merit. Defensively we have regressed overall, but not 93 spots worth of regression. At the same time our quality of opponent improved. JH4P pointed our poor d prior to conference play and vs low quality opponents. While thats true, we've also had some good - very good defensive games.

        Here's the head scratchers. First # is KP's offensive rating, second # is how many points allowed.
        OU #38 - 91 L
        SDSU #41 - 85 W
        SMU #86 - 83 L
        SMU #86 - 78 W
        Temple #100 - 86 W
        Temple #100 - 81 L
        Temple #100 - 81 W
        Tulane #138 - 86 W
        Ark St #179 - 80 W
        Cal #294 - 82 W
        7-3 in games we were we bad - very poor definsively.

        Games we were a top 20 or better defense (my guess):
        Marquette #13 - 66 W
        ND #28 - 67 L
        HOU #31 - 63 W
        Cincy #54 - 62 L
        OKST #61 - 66 W
        Baylor #72 - 62 W
        Charleston #87 - 63 W
        5-2 when we were good - very good defensively

        *For reference Loyola was highest ranked MVC team at #68. No other MVC team finished top 100.
        **In 2017 we led the MVC with an offensive rating of #13. Loyola was the only other valley team in top 100 (92).

        2016-17 notable defensive performances:
        Louisville #22 - 62 L
        Mich St #58 - 77 L
        OU #118 -73 W
        OKST #1 - 93 L
        ISUb #266 - 73 W
        Loyola #92 - 75 W
        ISUr #118 - 76 L
        ISUr #118 - 45 W
        ISUr #118 - 51 W
        Dayton #53 - 58 W
        UK #12 - 65 L

        Last edited by IndianaShocker; 1 week ago.


        • #35
          This season we are 12-5 combined in games that we were good/really good and bad/poor. Last season we finished 6-5 in "outlier" games (I may have missed one or two).

          In games we were neither great nor terrible defensively the two season combined record for this team is 28-2. You could even argue the semi final loss to Hou (#31, 77) was an outlier on the poor side, which makes it 28-1 in games that we are pretty good - average defensively.


          • #36
            Does anyone else think our guards collapse on a drive too quickly? It seems like I see LS and CF collapse and either (a) foul the driver or (b) leave their guy wide open for a three. Fred was the king of stripping drivers or bigs that were posting up, but none of our current guys are nearly as effective.

            Plus, we've got Shaq down low. Is it really necessary to collapse every single time?


            • #37
              Originally posted by jdshock View Post
              Does anyone else think our guards collapse on a drive too quickly?
              "It's amazing to watch Ron slide into that open area, Fred will find him and it's straight cash homie."--HCGM


              • #38
                With little pressure on the ball initiating the offense, there is no disruption on the initial pass/drive, so deflections are way down and our help defense is called on way too early in the play, thus causing scrambling and leaving opponents wide open. Fred was in the guy's jersey and if he drove, Baker would make a swipe at the ball and the play was put off kilter. Landry is three feet off and the guy drives, CF has to cover his man and cannot swipe at the ball and this allows the offense to do whatever it wishes as our help defenders hedge toward helping.
                "I not sure that I've ever been around a more competitive player or young man than Fred VanVleet. I like to win more than 99.9% of the people in this world, but he may top me." -- Gregg Marshall 12/23/13
                Remember when Nancy Pelosi said about Obamacare:
                "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it".

                A physician called into a radio show and said:
                "That's the definition of a stool sample."


                • Jamar Howard 4 President
                  Editing a comment
                  Yes. This.

                  Watch when WSU’s offense struggles (hasn’t been too often this year, but happens for stretches on occasion). Usually there are on ball defenders making it painful to do anything. Just dribbling up top is a chore. Getting the offense moving the way WSU wants it is hard.

                  THIS is what WSU needs to do better at, but I don’t think Connor or Austin are capable of it.

                • Cdizzle
                  Cdizzle commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I think Austin may be capable, just maybe not this year. The Oklahoma State game is an example of Landry doing this very well. I've been a little disappointed we haven't seen it more from him since then.

                • IndianaShocker
                  IndianaShocker commented
                  Editing a comment
                  This is what scares me about our potential 2nd round match up vs WVA. We've struggled vs the press at times and no team does it better or is more relentless than Press Virginia. Our bigs are not great passers / decsion makers vs pressure on the perimeter. CF & AR could struggle vs their physicality and length. Not sure ZB is the answer. If we meet, HCGM will have to be on top of his game schematically. My hope is NMST gets bounced opening day and Jans and HCGM workout a gameplan together. I remember George Karl helping Majerus with a gameplan during the NCAAT years back. CJ and GM are amazing lab partners.

              • #39
                I'm just tired of one guy going off and having a career day in every game we play.
                "Long wave the Yellow and the Black..."


                • #40
                  Originally posted by mmm View Post
                  Do you folks think Jans is a factor?
                  Last year, NMSU ended at #124 in D on KenPom. Right now, NMSU is #14.
                  Last year, WSU ended at #13 in D on KemPom. Right now, WSU is #107.
                  Holy S***. I would say so. Clearly there are things we could be doing better, but are not. I am assuming it comes down to game planning and "hiding" weaknesses better.
                  “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
                  -Sun Tzu, The Art of War


                  • #41
                    This thread didn’t age well.