Wichita State vs Oklahoma Game Thread

[Teddy Graham]

I was shocked how good Trae Young is...shooting, driving, finishing, passing. He is a transcendent talent. I don't like to overstate things, but the Curry comparisons are right on...except I think Young is a better passer.

Don't understand why Shaq doesn't get a touch in the paint every single time down the court. There should be a buzzer that goes off if he is outside of it for more than 2 seconds. He can be devastating in there, and if he is doubled he's a good enough passer to make teams pay.

Props to Willis for his game today. He fought his way to 20 points and keyed a run in the early part of the 2nd half that we just couldn't keep up. He still has work to do, but he has definitely gotten better this year.

Agree with some other posters that our 3-pt D is not what we are used to; thankfully Marshall is the same coach that got us used to great D and is the one at the helm to get that corrected.

After reflecting some on the game, I think later this season losing to OU like we did will feel nothing like the loss to OSU last year. LY's loss still makes me feel sick. OU is a much better team than OSU was last year and they just beat us straight up today. We can't lose sight of how good the Shocks are now and we are about to drop Markis into the mix.

[Shockm]

Young makes every player on their team better because we paid him so much attention. However, if we just hit 35% of our 3 point tries, we win. You can't play a good team and hit 20% or less (3 pointers) and win. Sometimes, it happens

[wsushox1]

If OU is not a NC title contender, and OU just took us behind the wood shed and beat us up like we're going out of style, what does that make us? A top 40, round of 32 type team at best?

At this point, I would say that is the ceiling.

No one can create offense besides Landry Shamet. Against talented defensive teams, that's not gonna get it done.

[wsushox1]

We rank 242 in points per game given up from 3 pointers. At some point, it’s not just that “everybody” gets hot against us.

DING DING DING DING

You can say what you want about this, but Gregg Marshall teams have been terrible at guarding the 3 point line.

This is the way basketball is played now and it's only going to become more and more that way. Guard the damned 3 point line. The WSU coaching staff has not adjusted to that, and it's burned them time and time again. The year after the undefeated season, Evan Wessel got caught with his hand down on defense while guarding the 3pt line so often you had to ask yourself if he wanted them to score on him.

Pitiful.

[CBB_Fan]

We can't lose sight of how good the Shocks are now and we are about to drop Markis into the mix.

I don't think they are "that good" right now. They are talented, experienced, and deep but have been giving up double digit leads to to less talented, less experienced, less deep teams.

In a way not relating to effort, the team is coasting on its composition. They aren't outplaying decent teams, just out lasting them or out talenting them. Teams are coming with better game plans on both sides of the court and doing a better job at executing that game plan.

And that is the reason teams as bad as California and SDSU put up 18 and 13 point leads on us. They came in and got the shots they wanted and stopped us from doing the same. Yes, we ended up winning those games, but not in ways that will work against tournament teams.

The team isn't close to tapping their potential, but I also haven't seen much signs of them making the changes to do so. We have the tools to win a title, but a bunch of unattended tools do not spontaneously make a shed just by putting them near wood.

[WuShocker2006]

Or maybe we just had a bad game? Wait, good teams aren’t allowed a bad game, I forgot.

[Rlh04d]

And maybe we just had a bad game against Cal and SDSU. Can a good team just have a bad game in 30% of their games?

(I'm not arguing we're not a good team, but at some point dismissing patterns as "just an off night" becomes silly.)

[pinstripers]

This Oklahoma team is a bunch of kids. They will be much better come March. We have a bunch of Seniors.

[WuShock16]

Here's another obvious reminder but one still worth mentioning....Markis McDuffie hasn't played yet.

We have two very winnable home games this next week to close out the non-conference slate. As someone else mentioned, if we were presented a scenario on November 1 that we would go 10-2 in the non-conference slate with the losses coming in Hawaii and one of the Big 12 games...and doing so without Markis McDuffie, how many of us would have taken that sight unseen? You always want to win every single game, but being fair, I probably would have thought that it was about right.

Win these games this week, and we'll be fine. #NotWorried

[lmor1971]

I have said this all along. MM brings an excitement level to the court that is contagious. Look at last year. He simply keeps everyone pumped plus the obvious missing hole in the O. He is an elite Defense player as well patience people once he is back we are up another level. I think our current rankings are accounting for his comeback as well.

[Dan]

Here's another obvious reminder but one still worth mentioning....Markis McDuffie hasn't played yet.

We have two very winnable home games this next week to close out the non-conference slate. As someone else mentioned, if we were presented a scenario on November 1 that we would go 10-2 in the non-conference slate with the losses coming in Hawaii and one of the Big 12 games...and doing so without Markis McDuffie, how many of us would have taken that sight unseen? You always want to win every single game, but being fair, I probably would have thought that it was about right.

Win these games this week, and we'll be fine. #NotWorried

I think most everyone agrees we’re fine, record-wise. It’s some of things we’re seeing on the court that are discouraging. We have a lot of work to do to be as good as they say we are. Fortunately, MM is a key piece to that improvement.

[asiseeit]

Someone else pointed this out and looking at the stat sheet it's hard to argue. We lost cause WE
didn't hit OUR three's. They were only 13-40 which is NOT great three point shooting while we
were 6-24. Having said that they were getting much easier looks but were not making them as
much as it seemed sitting at the game. We probably win the game if we shoot the same % beyond
the arc as they did and Jones doesn't try and take over the offense while he is in there. That and
the one horrible side line call which gave them possession and a quick three that stopped a run of
ours and the crowd getting more into the game.

[Rlh04d]

Same 3% as them would have added 6 points and not covered the deficit. Granted, in the flow of things, sure, maybe that helps us out more -- but also remember we needed a garbage time 3 to cut it to 8, and they were intentionally bleeding clock at the end. Also, we were probably a combined inch away from having two of Frankamp's jumpers be threes -- that would have added two points and raised the % a good amount, but not changed the course of the game much at all.

I agree that the awful out of bounds call really killed our momentum for a comeback, though, on top of handing them an extra three. If that call properly gives us the ball, and we hit a 3 there, I think we win.

[WuDrWu]

Lon Kruger has been to 2 Final Fours and won more than 600 games. He may have his best player ever, including while he was in the NBA. He's under paid.

I hope we continue the series.

I do think we miss Jans (because he's elite) but I don't think our game plan was crap. We got the ball deep into the post a lot. I don't know how many bunnies we missed, but it was a lot. Their bigs (imho) were a little more athletic than we anticipated and we seemed more concerned with not getting shots blocked than making shots. And then when those bigs for us went back on D, they struggled to defend, well, pretty much anyone outside the paint.

Speaking of athleticism, is it just me or do we seem a shade slow? OU was definitely a lot quicker than us yesterday.

Other than injury, I can't fathom a scenario where Trae Young isn't 1st team All America. I can't remember a better player WSU has played. That being said, the rest of their team isn't elite, although Young can make them look elite.

We had a really hard time getting a 50/50 call. I'm not blaming the officials by any stretch, but we had a really hard time getting a 50/50 call.

At the elite level, you need players than can make plays, and we're one short right now. I'm not concerned. This is an outstanding team, but I don't think we're a top 5 team, and I don't really care who does or doesn't. For the 1st time, we get to compete against enough really good teams to find out where we belong, and that's all you can ask for.

There is plenty to work on between now and the 30th. Being classy isn't one of those things (except HCGM.....did you really need to disembowel AM in front of the whole country). I love how our guys handle themselves, especially in the face of adversity and aren't pracks like Young. He's a cocky MF and I really wished someone would have decked him, but that's why our guys are so good (and to be fair he backs it up).

Trailing by large margins is probably something we need to address asafp. Or it's telling us something we don't want to hear....I'm not positive which.

8-2 without Markis is pretty solid. No complaints here.

[wichshock65]

A few observations from section 214.

The crowd was never making a difference in the game. Finally in the second everyone stood up and started getting loud during one of our short runs, only to sit down seconds later after another quick OU 3. Otherwise, most of the noise was collective gasps when Trey was making uncontested 3s from 30 feet.

Sooners were by far the better team yesterday. Not even close.

OU definitely would have been ranked pre-season if anyone had known that Trey was going to be that good in his freshman year. No doubt. Kid is a stud, weiny or not.

The last 5 minutes seemed like NO ONE was willing to take a shot, passing up shots that I think normally would have been taken during most games. It appeared to me that everyone was told (coached) to get the ball inside and we're affraid to do anything but. Not sure I agree working the ball around for 25 seconds while down 15 while passing up decent 3s was the right move.

Does Shaq care? Willis does.

I don't fault Jones for trying to get to the hole. At least he tried to spark things. He'll have good contributions when he figures things out. Remember, he does practice against the rest of the team everyday and I hear he does pretty well. Guessing nerves have something to do with it.

Where the hell was Connor the last part of the game? Our best three-point shooter was sitting on the bench until about 1 minute left in the game. I saw coach jump his ass for something and then he went to the bench not to return for quite a while. Not sure what happened but I think not having him in hurt us.

Courious what Lomax thought of the game.

I put myself firmly in the camp with other level-headed shocker fans that believe we will be fine and hopefully can learn from this experience. Having two losses with the schedule we've had, and without our leading score and rebounder from last year, is not the end of the world. Yes, I wish we could win every game and frankly get pissed off when we don't but if we're having the same issues with the team after Marcus is back, then we have reason for concern. Until then, everyone take a deep breath. These kids want to win and I believe they will do everything in their power to make sure this never happens to them again. Do you think they like to be embarrassed in front of the home crowd? I believe the Integrity an attitude of these kids!


GO SHOX!

[ShockerFever]

Young makes every player on their team better because we paid him so much attention. However, if we just hit 35% of our 3 point tries, we win. You can't play a good team and hit 20% or less (3 pointers) and win. Sometimes, it happens

That was the problem. We panic and fire up 3's when we're down and our inside advantages always get wasted. Instead of firing up 24 effing 3's, we could have done away with about 10 of those shots and utilized them better.

Of course, I say that, and Shaq is only 4-12 from the field himself. Wasn't a great day for him regardless.

[ShockerFever]

Or maybe we just had a bad game? Wait, good teams aren’t allowed a bad game, I forgot.

This is true. And OU had a really good game.

Gotta go 30-0 or this team's history.

[ShockerFever]

Lon Kruger has been to 2 Final Fours and won more than 600 games. He may have his best player ever, including while he was in the NBA. He's under paid.

I hope we continue the series.

I do think we miss Jans (because he's elite) but I don't think our game plan was crap. We got the ball deep into the post a lot. I don't know how many bunnies we missed, but it was a lot. Their bigs (imho) were a little more athletic than we anticipated and we seemed more concerned with not getting shots blocked than making shots. And then when those bigs for us went back on D, they struggled to defend, well, pretty much anyone outside the paint.

Speaking of athleticism, is it just me or do we seem a shade slow? OU was definitely a lot quicker than us yesterday.

Other than injury, I can't fathom a scenario where Trae Young isn't 1st team All America. I can't remember a better player WSU has played. That being said, the rest of their team isn't elite, although Young can make them look elite.

We had a really hard time getting a 50/50 call. I'm not blaming the officials by any stretch, but we had a really hard time getting a 50/50 call.

At the elite level, you need players than can make plays, and we're one short right now. I'm not concerned. This is an outstanding team, but I don't think we're a top 5 team, and I don't really care who does or doesn't. For the 1st time, we get to compete against enough really good teams to find out where we belong, and that's all you can ask for.

There is plenty to work on between now and the 30th. Being classy isn't one of those things (except HCGM.....did you really need to disembowel AM in front of the whole country). I love how our guys handle themselves, especially in the face of adversity and aren't pracks like Young. He's a cocky MF and I really wished someone would have decked him, but that's why our guys are so good (and to be fair he backs it up).

Trailing by large margins is probably something we need to address asafp. Or it's telling us something we don't want to hear....I'm not positive which.

8-2 without Markis is pretty solid. No complaints here.

Agree with everything here. We could NOT get a 50/50 call. Officiating made no difference in the outcome but I thought we were getting hosed on a lot. Especially Mr. GreyHair, which led to one of the weakest fan rejections in memory. Very soft officiating crew.

Oh and the Marshall-AM thing. TERRIBLE look. We all know Marshall is a passionate guy, especially in games, but that's twice in 3 games where he did something rather disturbing on the sidelines. Being passionate isn't an excuse for what he did to AM yesterday. Again, I love his passion and it usually is a positive for the team. But he needs to rewatch these things and look himself in the mirror and see if that's how he wants to portray himself. I mean both incidents occurred at the expense of friendly fire.