The Case against Wichita State

[MadDog]

Just found this on ESPN.com. Requires Insider access to read the whole article. If anyone can fill us in on the details, that would be great.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/insider/news/story?id=6089806&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d6089806

[martymoose]

I'm not an insider, nor did I click on that link, but I can fill you in.

We have ZERO wins against the top 50
We have ONE win against the top 100 (Tulsa 99)

It's pretty simple.

Our only hope outside winning the MVC tourney is for UNI and MSU to finish strong with exception of their game against us. That would move them both into the 30's RPI wise, making our future wins against them and losses look much much better.

[notquiteBWing]

It pretty much tells us what we already know.

Our lack of quality wins (top 50) is going to keep us out most likely. (at-large at least) (0-3 vrs. top 50)

He busts out alot of stats that show why he believes the way he does.

Lists all the mid-major teams in the past five years that had top 50 RPIs but missed the tourney.

They missed because they didn't play many/win many top 50 rpi games.

(MVC teams flood the chart)

[Rosewood]

Year after year, the Selection Committee punishes teams that do not seeking out top-50 games. More often then not, that means mid-majors (defined here as any teams outside of the big six conferences, the Mountain West and Conference USA). Over the past five years, of the 32 teams to miss the tournament despite being ranked in the RPI's top 50, 19 have come from mid-major conferences. The median number of top-50 games played by these squads? Five.

That pisses me off to no end. They say that like WSU just sat back and was like "Top-50 games? **** that! Let's play Chicago State twice if we can!"

We were in the Maui tournament. We scheduled San Diego St on the road. But then we had to fight to even fill the schedule because those Top 50 teams don't budge because they don't have to.

At least he goes on to acknowledge we don't have any bad losses, which we did last year.

[martymoose]

Year after year, the Selection Committee punishes teams that do not seeking out top-50 games. More often then not, that means mid-majors (defined here as any teams outside of the big six conferences, the Mountain West and Conference USA). Over the past five years, of the 32 teams to miss the tournament despite being ranked in the RPI's top 50, 19 have come from mid-major conferences. The median number of top-50 games played by these squads? Five.

That pisses me off to no end. They say that like WSU just sat back and was like "Top-50 games? #### that! Let's play Chicago State twice if we can!"

We were in the Maui tournament. We scheduled San Diego St on the road. But then we had to fight to even fill the schedule because those Top 50 teams don't budge because they don't have to.

At least he goes on to acknowledge we don't have any bad losses, which we did last year.

Actually, the Maui tournament is just that, a tournament. It's not exactly scheduling top 50 teams. We lost to UCONN, therefore what did Maui count for?...Nothing. We didn't schedule San Diego St, they were part of our conference challange. Every game we actually scheduled was pretty much a cupcake buyout game and it's going to cost us...and the ones that weren't still weren't worth much. Tulsa was the best team we scheduled and we knew they weren't going to be great.

So far we've lost to the 4 best teams we've played, now it's time to win out or all hopes will be on St Louis.

[Rosewood]

Here is what I'm saying: You have no control over how good a win is. You schedule these teams way in advance (like the LSU game). We have no control over how good of a win that was going to be. Next year when we finally play Utah St -- if they are down and we beat them we had no control over that.

So talking about "good wins" I think should be one of the last things considered and only after everything else when you have to find SOME way to seperate two teams.

However, a bad loss is something a team has total control over. Last year's loss at Evansville was a BAD loss and had they played better, it wouldn't have happened. They had control of that on the court. So I can hear arguments against teams when they have bad losses. If our losses on the year end up being UCONN, San Diego State, UNI and Mo State (even if it is a double loss to either or), then we have no bad losses and that to me should be way more important then a "Good win."

Last year we beat Texas Tech and we beat them the year before that. At the time they seemed like GREAT wins ... turned out to be not so much.

[ABC]

Let me repeat. We have to figure out how to replace some of the Chicago States with top-50.

Yes, I know it isn't easy. But I am not talking about scheduling Duke or Kentucky.

Actually how about top 100, let alone top 50!

[Rosewood]

Year after year, the Selection Committee punishes teams that do not seeking out top-50 games. More often then not, that means mid-majors (defined here as any teams outside of the big six conferences, the Mountain West and Conference USA). Over the past five years, of the 32 teams to miss the tournament despite being ranked in the RPI's top 50, 19 have come from mid-major conferences. The median number of top-50 games played by these squads? Five.

That pisses me off to no end. They say that like WSU just sat back and was like "Top-50 games? #### that! Let's play Chicago State twice if we can!"

We were in the Maui tournament. We scheduled San Diego St on the road. But then we had to fight to even fill the schedule because those Top 50 teams don't budge because they don't have to.

At least he goes on to acknowledge we don't have any bad losses, which we did last year.

Actually, the Maui tournament is just that, a tournament. It's not exactly scheduling top 50 teams. We lost to UCONN, therefore what did Maui count for?...Nothing. We didn't schedule San Diego St, they were part of our conference challange. Every game we actually scheduled was pretty much a cupcake buyout game and it's going to cost us...and the ones that weren't still weren't worth much. Tulsa was the best team we scheduled and we knew they weren't going to be great.

So far we've lost to the 4 best teams we've played, now it's time to win out or all hopes will be on St Louis.

We scheduled ourselves into a good tournament and that counts for something.

But again you sound like the coaching staff just didn't want to be bothered with trying to schedule Top 50 teams.

[Rosewood]

Let me repeat. We have to figure out how to replace some of the Chicago States with top-50.

Yes, I know it isn't easy. But I am not talking about scheduling Duke or Kentucky.

Actually how about top 100, let alone top 50!

When they say "Come to us, we will play once" you can't say yes to that BS.

Don't make it sound like it was "Hey, do we play Ohio State or Chicago State?"

[KC Shox]

Year after year, the Selection Committee punishes teams that do not seeking out top-50 games. More often then not, that means mid-majors (defined here as any teams outside of the big six conferences, the Mountain West and Conference USA). Over the past five years, of the 32 teams to miss the tournament despite being ranked in the RPI's top 50, 19 have come from mid-major conferences. The median number of top-50 games played by these squads? Five.

That pisses me off to no end. They say that like WSU just sat back and was like "Top-50 games? #### that! Let's play Chicago State twice if we can!"

We were in the Maui tournament. We scheduled San Diego St on the road. But then we had to fight to even fill the schedule because those Top 50 teams don't budge because they don't have to.

At least he goes on to acknowledge we don't have any bad losses, which we did last year.

Actually, the Maui tournament is just that, a tournament. It's not exactly scheduling top 50 teams. We lost to UCONN, therefore what did Maui count for?...Nothing. We didn't schedule San Diego St, they were part of our conference challange. Every game we actually scheduled was pretty much a cupcake buyout game and it's going to cost us...and the ones that weren't still weren't worth much. Tulsa was the best team we scheduled and we knew they weren't going to be great.

So far we've lost to the 4 best teams we've played, now it's time to win out or all hopes will be on St Louis.

We scheduled ourselves into a good tournament and that counts for something.

But again you sound like the coaching staff just didn't want to be bothered with trying to schedule Top 50 teams.

Did we schedule ourselves into a good tournament? I thought we simply accepted an invitation. I don't know. But I do know if these tournament organizers thought we were a 3rd or 4th tier program, we don't get the invitation so that says something.

Avoiding bad losses is a component for consideration, but its weight is less than good wins on the schedule. Ultimately, if the decision comes down to a few select teams for the last at-large spots, the team(s) with more quality wins will get the nod over a team who simply had no bad losses.

I agree that UNI, MSU and VCU are must win games. If we can't sweep, then 2 out of 3 may be enough but that places us in a real pickle IMO.

[NCAABound]

Let me repeat. We have to figure out how to replace some of the Chicago States with top-50.

Yes, I know it isn't easy. But I am not talking about scheduling Duke or Kentucky.

Actually how about top 100, let alone top 50!

When they say "Come to us, we will play once" you can't say yes to that BS.

Don't make it sound like it was "Hey, do we play Ohio State or Chicago State?"

It's BS...but it's how the system works. We'd better learn this real quick or we'll continue to be like Missouri State with a high RPI and left out. We're gonna have to earn it by scheduling up without return games until we become a Gonzaga type name.

[proshox]

Unlike the Mostates of the past plenty of basketball analyst have WSU passing the eye test. In Mostate's best RPI year they had to not only compete with good non-MVC teams, but with four other tournament worthy teams from the MVC. That team's finish and lack of any other body of work to latch onto kept them out.

WSU has plenty of opportunities to show well on national tv. I can easily see 5 chances to play top 100 teams left on the schedule...

[Ixiah]

Its kind of interesting that "no wins against the top 50" is brought up. If we use that measure then shouldn't K state be penalized as well? Their RPI sits next to WSU and their best RPI win is against Virginia Tech (#61). Also, they have a lower RPI loss (Colorado at 88) compared to WSU's (UNI at 51).

[Shocktoberfest]

Just keep winning. If we beat UNI, VCU and MSU and avoid a first round out in Stl we are in. At least that's what my mom told me.

[Speed]

WSU is in my bracket!
If I'm wrong I'll be good & ticked off well into April, but enjoy the NIT home games.