Where is the big 12

[ShockCity]

Veritas,
I asked a valid question in regard to someone elses comment. Not surprised with my screen name and your anit-purple colored glasses you came out. The Shocks were the ONLY team from the valley that had a chance to do anything in the tournament. Their pitching competed well, but they simply were not good enough to go further. Other than that, you can bash Weiser and KSU all you want, I don't care, and I'm right about the Shocks.

One-year wonder!

[shockfan89_]

Boston, which one or two valley teams do you suppose would have gotten through, if they couldn't get out of their own "crappy" (your word) conference tournament? Of the 16 teams that did advance, which one or two teams do you think one or two of these valley teams would have advanced? The Shocks were the hottest team in the valley going into the regional, and made a game effort, but still went two and out. I think it's safe to say any other valley team would have suffered the same fate.

You missed the point. The point was the Big 12 was WAY over represented and proved it on the field. This wasn't the year to use the MVC as an example, but the point is valid that someone else should have got 3 or 4 of the bids that went to the Big 12.

The Big 12 went 14-14 while Conference USA only got 3 teams in and went 10-3. The answer to your question is we will never know how another conference would have done if they got 8 teams in instead of the Big 12. All we can say is they couldn't have done any worse. The Big 12 did not prove to be that good when playing outside of their own conference. Even more evidence that RPI is meaningless.

[claycpa]

I completely disagree. MVC baseball in 2009 was poor, poor, poor.

The pitching around the league was far below a typical season. Only Cooper, Lowell, and Kelley were sub-3.00 ERA and no team was sub-4.00. The gross lack of pitching depth would have doomed each and every team vs. any team that made the tournament. Having WSU in the tournament actually gave the MVC the best shot at winning a regional game due to the top 3 pitchers plus Flynn, Johnson, and Sossaman out of the 'pen.

The batting around the MVC wasn't much better. Only two teams batted above .300 (one at .317 and one at .301) and that against all the bad pitching.

I though Indiana State was the best hitting team overall but their pitching was just deadful. 5.94 ERA,.301 B/Avg, and 1.66 Whip. Ouch. They scored the most runs per game, but gave up about 6.41 per game. Against NCAA tournament caliber hitting, it would be 12 runs per game.

MoSt had the most pop in their line-up and so-so pitching. Their *stellar* .961 fielding percantage was .001 from the bottom. Plus, they have an idiot for a coach.

Creighton might have been able to be competitive, but their starting pitching was ... well ... yuck. Their offense full of punch and judy hitters plus Darin Ruf wouldn't have been able to score more that 3-4 runs per game - not enough to overcome their mediocre (at best) pitching.

The rest of the teams just plain suck.

No, not a single team in the MVC would have advanced, even if they had played at home and even if they had gotten lucky.

--'85.

I think predicting what would have happened if say a Missouri State or an Indiana State got into the tournament is difficult to predict. However, based on the regular season results, WSU was the third best team in the MVC. I feel like even though we did not win any games in our regional, we proved that we belonged. I also know we did not beat Missouri State one time this year. Therefore, I think to summarily dismiss Missouri State's chances just because the MVC was down this year is a mistake. I know that over the course of a conference schedule OSU proved they were the 9th best team in the Big 12. I would have like to have seen how the best team in the MVC would have performed in the NCAA tournament vs. the 9th best team from any conference.

[William]

Boston, which one or two valley teams do you suppose would have gotten through, if they couldn't get out of their own "crappy" (your word) conference tournament? Of the 16 teams that did advance, which one or two teams do you think one or two of these valley teams would have advanced? The Shocks were the hottest team in the valley going into the regional, and made a game effort, but still went two and out. I think it's safe to say any other valley team would have suffered the same fate.

You missed the point. The point was the Big 12 was WAY over represented and proved it on the field. This wasn't the year to use the MVC as an example, but the point is valid that someone else should have got 3 or 4 of the bids that went to the Big 12.

The Big 12 went 14-14 while Conference USA only got 3 teams in and went 10-3. The answer to your question is we will never know how another conference would have done if they got 8 teams in instead of the Big 12. All we can say is they couldn't have done any worse. The Big 12 did not prove to be that good when playing outside of their own conference. Even more evidence that RPI is meaningless.

First of all I am no defender of the bcs, I just don't like intellectual dishonesty or missunderstandings in arguments. Rice and E. Carolina were 1 seeds, they are supposed to win, OU and Texas were 1 seeds, only texas won. S. Miss won as a 3 seed but did not beat a big12 team to advance, they beat the 4th place acc team. If you want to compare conference performance compare them with equal seeds at least. When you do that you get these facts.

conf usa- two 1 seeds, both advance
big 12 two 1 seeds , one advances
acc four 1 seeds, three advance
sec three 1 seeds, three advance
big west two 1 seeds, one advance
big east one 1 seed, one advance
pac 10 one 1 seed, one advance

Now looking at this I see that most of the time 1 seeds advance, and when they don't its usually because Arkansas beat Ou.

BIG DEAL!!!!!!

[BCSCat]

You all do realize that any committee member, including the chairman, are out of the room during discussion of any team they are connected to in any way and do not vote on those teams, right? I'm sure there are some off the record discussions that may sway a vote or two but I doubt that FKSUADTW had the amount of influence several here have alluded to.

[vbird53]

You all do realize that any committee member, including the chairman, are out of the room during discussion of any team they are connected to in any way and do not vote on those teams, right? I'm sure there are some off the record discussions that may sway a vote or two but I doubt that FKSUADTW had the amount of influence several here have alluded to.

I disagree. Chairman may leave the room while a vote is cast, but do not tell me that said Chairman did not have direct influence on the field, including member institutions that he represents.

[BCSCat]

If that's true why not get an MVC official made chair? Surely a great and powerful conference like the MVC could get that done.

:lol:

[Cdizzle]

If that's true why not get an MVC official made chair? Surely a great and powerful conference like the MVC could get that done.

:lol:

They would, but they're quite busy. You see, institutional control and keeping track of millions of dollars in athletic department finances takes up most of their time.

[BCSCat]

Gotta give ya that one - well played.

[WSUwatcher]

Nice

Yes, nice shot, Cdizzle.

But of course the real answer is what we've already noted: no one from any school or conference should be in that role. In fact, Doug Elgin has been on the committee in the past and no doubt tried to make sure Valley teams weren't overlooked, but that doesn't make it right -- it just means that the league got its turn at the lobbyists' feeding trough.

No, get rid of the obvious conflict of interest and put the selections in the hands of people like national college baseball beat writers, pro scouts who focus on college teams, etc. They may make mistakes, too -- but at least they'll be honest mistakes, which is not the case now.

[ShockerFever]

If that's true why not get an MVC official made chair? Surely a great and powerful conference like the MVC could get that done.

:lol:

They would, but they're quite busy. You see, institutional control and keeping track of millions of dollars in athletic department finances takes up most of their time.

LMAO!!!!

SIT down. :good:

[billybud]

Lordy..I guess that I just didn't realize that Drake and Creighton had that large an athletic budget.

With my typical BCS fan thinking, I thought their budget was akin to the local youth soccer club that we volunteers administer. I mean, well, we do have six travel teams that travel to tournaments and play dates in Florida and adjacent states..four paid coaches for the upper level teams. Is Creighton athletics that much bigger?

OK OK..I am being facetious

[WSUwatcher]

Lordy..I guess that I just didn't realize that Drake and Creighton had that large an athletic budget.

With my typical BCS fan thinking, I thought their budget was akin to the local youth soccer club that we volunteers administer. I mean, well, we do have six travel teams that travel to tournaments and play dates in Florida and adjacent states..four paid coaches for the upper level teams. Is Creighton athletics that much bigger?

OK OK..I am being facetious

Probably a question better posed on the Creighton board, bud, where you'll no doubt win yet another Dale Carnegie award.

:roll:

Of course, they aren't nearly as genteel as we here, so be ready for the flames to erupt.

[Veritas]

Veritas,
I asked a valid question in regard to someone elses comment. Not surprised with my screen name and your anit-purple colored glasses you came out. The Shocks were the ONLY team from the valley that had a chance to do anything in the tournament. Their pitching competed well, but they simply were not good enough to go further. Other than that, you can bash Weiser and KSU all you want, I don't care, and I'm right about the Shocks.

Uhhh W'Cat, I didn't bash K-State in my post. I'm simply writing that if you look at the situation objectively, you'd have to agree that Weiser made a really bad and subjective choice. He was the "expert for the Big XII, MoVal, and the Horizon (I believe), and he did not represent those three conferences with the least bit of an unbiased approach as he should and could have. If you're a kitty fan, I'm not surprised if you have an inclination to back your former AD in this argument. If the paw fits...

However, come on W'Cat. Do you really deep down believe that either OSU and Baylor deserved an invitation? Take off the BCS coat with the long tails, throw away the loyalty of defending your former AD. Do you really believe OSU and Baylor deserved it???

[ShockCity]

Lordy..I guess that I just didn't realize that Drake and Creighton had that large an athletic budget.

With my typical BCS fan thinking, I thought their budget was akin to the local youth soccer club that we volunteers administer. I mean, well, we do have six travel teams that travel to tournaments and play dates in Florida and adjacent states..four paid coaches for the upper level teams. Is Creighton athletics that much bigger?

OK OK..I am being facetious

Well, FSU no doubt saves a bunch of money by not leaving their home court in basketball or football to play a game until conference season starts.