Desperate Augie

[WSUwatcher]

Here's an interesting item from ESPN's baseball blog about the major league draft:

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4222052&name=mlb_draft&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d4222052%26name%3dmlb_draft

I've generally held Augie Garrido in fairly high regard, but I lost a lot of respect for him over the use of Austin Wood against BC last weekend. A closer -- really, any college kid, but especially a closer -- for 13 innings and 169 pitches? That was the most innings shown in Boyd Nation's "Pitch Count Watch" this year, and the fifth highest actual pitch count he noted all season.

And what makes it doubly sad was that BC wasn't exactly lighting up the rest of his staff, either; and that it wasn't even a game Texas had to win. Sure, the second round winner's bracket game is important, but Texas would have had to work hard to lose against that regional field anyway, especially with their #2 seeded neighbors down the road be already out.

Bottom line is that Augie got desperate to win and reach a super -- I wonder if the DUI incident earlier this year affected his sense of how badly he needed to win -- and so he threw out any sense of coaching responsibility or perspective. Maybe the old Zenmaster is losing it and needs to hang it up.

[shocker3]

169 pitches for a closer -That is criminal. I think Augie has lost it.

[vbird53]

I listened to one of the baseball america writers actually try and defend this yesterday.

[vbird53]

Could this be Augie's last go-around?

[ShockCity]

Soggy Burrito is as classless as they come. Remember a couple of years ago at the CWS when he and his team refused to come on the field to accept the 2nd place trophy at the CWS?

[CharlieHog]

I never paid attention to a pitch count before the 2004 regionals. Since then I have, and I see this all the time.

Corbin at Vandy, who is pretty highly regarded as far as this goes, brought back Mike Minor who had thrown over 100 pitches on Friday to pitch last night in their elimination game. And Mike Minor is a great pitching prospect.

Bianco at Ole Miss used Pomeranz again last night. He threw 109 pitches on Friday in 8 innings. Last night he threw 119 in a complete game.

I see it all the time in the regular season too.

LSU pitcher earlier this year threw 30+ on Friday in relief and came back and threw 130+ in a complete game on Sunday. And this was in like March.

ORU threw a pitcher for 170+ pitches against us this year and that kid was a freshman with barely any work all year.

For all the flack DVH gets over Charley Boyce throwing two days in a row, in the five years since then I can't think of us using a pitcher more than a normal amount. We might have had a starter go for 130 occasionally. I bet the highest we've had this year is Brett Eibner threw 125 or so in a complete game 2-hitter against Georgia.

[ShockCity]

Good. It sounds like DVH has seen the err of his ways. :D

I'm of the opinion that just because it happens alot, doesn't make it right. To me, it is not worth taking a chance ruining a kids future just to win a game. No matter if that future is in MLB or out of baseball.

[William]

I don't know what disgusts me more, a coach overusing a pitcher, or a holier than though fan complaining about it.

[shockfan89_]

William - Are you saying WSU overuses pitchers? I know we have extended the pitch counts of starting pitchers more in recent years but notthing EVER REMOTELY close to using a pitcher twice in a tournament or extending a reliever anything remotely close to the examples Charlie provided. I believe we have even pulled guys with no hitters due to pitch count.

In fact, I have been complaining for years for WSU to not baby our pitchers quite as much as they do.[/list]

[martymoose]

I don't know what disgusts me more, a coach overusing a pitcher, or a holier than though fan complaining about it.

I'm not sure what you're talking about a "holier than though fan"...abuse is abuse. Kids' arms are going to continue to get used and abused by greedy coaches until enough people complain.

For all the flack DVH gets over Charley Boyce throwing two days in a row, in the five years since then I can't think of us using a pitcher more than a normal amount. We might have had a starter go for 130 occasionally. I bet the highest we've had this year is Brett Eibner threw 125 or so in a complete game 2-hitter against Georgia.

While tailgating before the OU game in Norman last Friday, we had an Arkansas fan come over and hang out with us for awhile. He is a booster at Arkansas and said he has a skybox and seemed to be very knowledgeable when talking baseball. Someone in my group mentioned pitcher abuse. He said after that game Gene was quoted in their paper as saying Boyce got abused and it was a shame...or something to that effect.

I never followed what happened after that, but this guy said Boyce was so messed up he wasn't able to pitch at all in the Super Regional. When he came in to pitch in the CWS he plunked something like 7 hitters and never pitched again after that. If all that's true, that's exactly why it should be considered abuse, it's just too bad some coaches can't see that.

[CharlieHog]

While tailgating before the OU game in Norman last Friday, we had an Arkansas fan come over and hang out with us for awhile. He is a booster at Arkansas and said he has a skybox and seemed to be very knowledgeable when talking baseball. Someone in my group mentioned pitcher abuse. He said after that game Gene was quoted in their paper as saying Boyce got abused and it was a shame...or something to that effect.

I never followed what happened after that, but this guy said Boyce was so messed up he wasn't able to pitch at all in the Super Regional. When he came in to pitch in the CWS he plunked something like 7 hitters and never pitched again after that. If all that's true, that's exactly why it should be considered abuse, it's just too bad some coaches can't see that.

That's not true at all. Boyce pitched a great game in the Super Regional against Florida State. I can't remember off hand how he did in the CWS. His senior year he came back and was the same pitcher he'd always been (a pretty good college pitcher).

[WSUwatcher]

I don't know what disgusts me more, a coach overusing a pitcher, or a holier than though fan complaining about it.

Ah, the dunce cap comes out of the closet for its annual appearance...

[ShockerFever]

I don't know what disgusts me more, a coach overusing a pitcher, or a holier than though fan complaining about it.

You're going for the Mr. Popularity award, aren't ya?

Wildcats choked.. :cry: Sorry about that. :(

[WSUwatcher]

Abuse

The problem with overworking a pitcher isn't just the risk to his future, it's that it can reduce his effectiveness. For example (from Baseball America's coverage of the upset regional win by Southern Mississippi over Georgia Tech):

"Georgia Tech jumped out to a 3-0 lead in the first inning Monday, but Southern Miss answered with a nine-spot in the second against Tech starter Deck McGuire (who threw 121 pitches over seven innings in a win against Georgia State on Friday)."

Deck McGuire, by the way, is a name you'll find on Boyd Nation's "Pitch Count Watch" list. So a heavy workload isn't new to him -- but it sure looks as if he had nothing left in the tank when he tried to come back on two days rest after a complete game's worth of pitching.

We've seen this, too -- Bionic Boyce was an exception, because as a "non-prospect," he relied heavily on guile and letting the other team get themselves out, which WSU was all too willing to do -- but when OU's Daniel McCutchen, a hard thrower, was called on to relieve against WSU in 2006, he wasn't very effective (he had a worse game ERA than the guy he replaced) and survived only because he had a big enough lead and the Shocker hitters smoked a few "at'em" balls, including the final out. Golloway and OU's fans think it "worked," because they won the game -- but the truth is that overusing McCutchen was probably the best chance OU had to blow their big lead, and they barely got away with it.

[ShockCity]

While tailgating before the OU game in Norman last Friday, we had an Arkansas fan come over and hang out with us for awhile. He is a booster at Arkansas and said he has a skybox and seemed to be very knowledgeable when talking baseball. Someone in my group mentioned pitcher abuse. He said after that game Gene was quoted in their paper as saying Boyce got abused and it was a shame...or something to that effect.

I never followed what happened after that, but this guy said Boyce was so messed up he wasn't able to pitch at all in the Super Regional. When he came in to pitch in the CWS he plunked something like 7 hitters and never pitched again after that. If all that's true, that's exactly why it should be considered abuse, it's just too bad some coaches can't see that.

That's not true at all. Boyce pitched a great game in the Super Regional against Florida State. I can't remember off hand how he did in the CWS. His senior year he came back and was the same pitcher he'd always been (a pretty good college pitcher).

Charlie, I'm not surprised you can't remember how he did in the CWS. I would want to forget it too. He went 5 innings, gave up 5 runs on 7 hits, had 2 wild pitches, and hit 3 batters.

http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/stats/spring_champs_records/2004/2004_spring_champs_records.pdf