Derek Norris-what could have been

[ShockCity]

Update:

The Nats have a powerful young catcher in Single A.

If he's not in AA, then he's not a prospect for the team yet.

I disagree. If you're in high A ball you can be considered a pretty decent prospect.

I disagree. I have been told that the true MLB prospects reside in AA.

This is his 3rd year and he is still in A Ball. That is hardly the fast track. All his numbers this year means is that he's acclimated to A-Ball competition. I'm sure his effort to this point in the season has gotten the MLB club interest. Now if he moves up to AA and does the same thing then I think he will get a shot. The Washington Nationals also drafted another catcher in '98 (Adrian Nieto) who is in the rookie league and by some is rated higher than Norris. Here are what other have to say:

There's an awful lot to like about Norris' bat, and the 20-year-old is off to a .270/.374/.539 start in 89 at-bats for Hagerstown. He's going to have a difficult time lasting behind the plate, but he might be strong enough offensively to make it as a first baseman or corner outfielder.

It does make you wonder if going and spending 3 years in Rookie and A ball was really better than going to WSU for 3 years

If they're talking about making room for him at 1B or in the outfield...he is a prospect!

I think for Derek he made the right decision to this point and I don't begrudge him that. He has gotten professional exposure and has obviously been developing under their system. Best of luck to him. And, if baseball america is recognizing you as a prospect, I think that is enough for me. He is only in advanced A because he is only 20!! It is not unusual for kids drafted out of HS to take 4-5 years to advance. People get so caught up in the level a kid is at (A, AA, AAA...). I think we put too much stock in that. In fact, most prospects for most teams are at the AA level and not the AAA level. Sometimes they will keep a kid at the A level and not bring him to AA because he is working with a specific coach who is at that A level.

[lawmaker]

He was in the Gulf Coast League (rookie ball) and now is in the South Atl League (A Ball) this year. He is only 20 years old. Unless the injury bug hits him he will be a very good player. And there is no doubt about it--he is a prospect.

[SB Shock]

Re: Norris

I think it's safe to say that not only is Norris a prospect, but he's an extremely high one at this point. He was just named one of Baseball America's top 50 prospects.


http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/prospects/?p=5456

Or BA needs a little more quality control in their articles. There are numerous issue with that list.

Norris supposbely jumped over several other Washington National prospects who are at a higher level putting up good numbers and are closer to getting to MLB.

[SB Shock]

Update:

The Nats have a powerful young catcher in Single A.

If he's not in AA, then he's not a prospect for the team yet.

I disagree. If you're in high A ball you can be considered a pretty decent prospect.

I disagree. I have been told that the true MLB prospects reside in AA.

This is his 3rd year and he is still in A Ball. That is hardly the fast track. All his numbers this year means is that he's acclimated to A-Ball competition. I'm sure his effort to this point in the season has gotten the MLB club interest. Now if he moves up to AA and does the same thing then I think he will get a shot. The Washington Nationals also drafted another catcher in '98 (Adrian Nieto) who is in the rookie league and by some is rated higher than Norris. Here are what other have to say:

There's an awful lot to like about Norris' bat, and the 20-year-old is off to a .270/.374/.539 start in 89 at-bats for Hagerstown. He's going to have a difficult time lasting behind the plate, but he might be strong enough offensively to make it as a first baseman or corner outfielder.

It does make you wonder if going and spending 3 years in Rookie and A ball was really better than going to WSU for 3 years

If they're talking about making room for him at 1B or in the outfield...he is a prospect!

Well if talking about somebody make you a prospect - then I guess he is with all the rest of minor league baseball. There are scouting reports for almost every player out there.

FWIW, that wasn't a team spokesman who said that - that was outside baseball analyst talking about him. My take from it was this analyst believe Norris ticket to the MLB is through his bat not his glove and they will likely have to move him to another position that won't wear him do physically.

[SB Shock]

He was in the Gulf Coast League (rookie ball) and now is in the South Atl League (A Ball) this year. He is only 20 years old. Unless the injury bug hits him he will be a very good player. And there is no doubt about it--he is a prospect.

If was drafting players for my fantasy baseball team out of a pool 50 minor league players - he wouldn't be on my top 50 list (yet).

If he continues to develop and moves to from Low-A to High-A and then to AA while putting up good or better numbers then I would be waiting to pounce on him when he gets that september call up in my next fantasy draft.

[ShockCity]

Once again, you are too stuck on the levels in minor league baseball. They really don't mean that much to most teams. The reason he is considered higher than some of the Nats other prospects because, more than likely, his ceiling is considered higher. Don't look at everything in one little box.

Quite honestly, it sounds like you are bitter about him not coming to WSU.

[shockmonster]

Shock City, You may be right that the Nats consider him a top prospect and he has progressed systematically the past three years, but I think that it is a fair statement to say that had he gone to WSU he would have stepped into A or high A ball this summer (exactly where he is at). Additionally, he signed for 190 K (4th round) right out of high school and if he had waited, it is also fair to say that his status and bonus would have been much much higher and perhaps he would have competed for the Johnny Bench award. First round picks make a lot of money. however, I wish him well.

[SB Shock]

Once again, you are too stuck on the levels in minor league baseball.

The levels do mean something. There various A level is for player development and to work on certain deficiencys. AA is for the top team prospects. AAA is for the most part a holding tank for MLB (holds the other 15 players from the 40 man roster). I used for recovering veteran to get some reps before going back to MLB or to hold those players who are to good enough to play MLB, but not good enough to stay there but are needed for depth.

They really don't mean that much to most teams. The reason he is considered higher than some of the Nats other prospects because, more than likely, his ceiling is considered higher.

I was just noting the inconsistency between BA own assessments. Also I would disagree with your assessment that he's got some higher ceiling than any other prospect - reading up on Washington National prospects - Norris is looked more on as a "sleeper".

Michael Burgess is considered their premier power prospect (1st rounder). He has already moved from Rookie-A (11 HR in 55 games) to A (24 HR in 131 games) to Adv-A (13 HR in 79 games so far).

Chris Marrero (another 1st rounder) is considered their best position prospect and best hitter with pure power. He's been set back by injuries but seems to be back on track.

Then there is Justin Maxwell who is now bouncing between AAA and MLB now. His progression was low-A, A/Adv-A, AA and now AAA.

Don't look at everything in one little box.

Actually I based my assessment on multiple sources who actually assess various minor league players.

Quite honestly, it sounds like you are bitter about him not coming to WSU.

Nah. Doesn't matter to me. I would rather have a bunch of kids playing for WSU who love the game and less concerned about where they are going to be drafted and more concerned about their "team". When that happens things seem to work out alright.

[ShockCity]

Shock City, You may be right that the Nats consider him a top prospect and he has progressed systematically the past three years, but I think that it is a fair statement to say that had he gone to WSU he would have stepped into A or high A ball this summer (exactly where he is at). Additionally, he signed for 190 K (4th round) right out of high school and if he had waited, it is also fair to say that his status and bonus would have been much much higher and perhaps he would have competed for the Johnny Bench award. First round picks make a lot of money. however, I wish him well.

He might have started right into A or high A ball, but, he would still have to earn the eyes and ears of the people in the organization as a newcomer. As it is now, he is at the same level he would likely be at, but the organization is already watching and tracking him.

[ShockCity]

Once again, you are too stuck on the levels in minor league baseball.

The levels do mean something. There various A level is for player development and to work on certain deficiencys. AA is for the top team prospects. AAA is for the most part a holding tank for MLB (holds the other 15 players from the 40 man roster). I used for recovering veteran to get some reps before going back to MLB or to hold those players who are to good enough to play MLB, but not good enough to stay there but are needed for depth.

They really don't mean that much to most teams. The reason he is considered higher than some of the Nats other prospects because, more than likely, his ceiling is considered higher.

I was just noting the inconsistency between BA own assessments. Also I would disagree with your assessment that he's got some higher ceiling than any other prospect - reading up on Washington National prospects - Norris is looked more on as a "sleeper".

Michael Burgess is considered their premier power prospect (1st rounder). He has already moved from Rookie-A (11 HR in 55 games) to A (24 HR in 131 games) to Adv-A (13 HR in 79 games so far).

Chris Marrero (another 1st rounder) is considered their best position prospect and best hitter with pure power. He's been set back by injuries but seems to be back on track.

Then there is Justin Maxwell who is now bouncing between AAA and MLB now. His progression was low-A, A/Adv-A, AA and now AAA.

Don't look at everything in one little box.

Actually I based my assessment on multiple sources who actually assess various minor league players.

Quite honestly, it sounds like you are bitter about him not coming to WSU.

Nah. Doesn't matter to me. I would rather have a bunch of kids playing for WSU who love the game and less concerned about where they are going to be drafted and more concerned about their "team". When that happens things seem to work out alright.

Fair enough. We agree to disagree my friend... 8)

[SB Shock]

Once again, you are too stuck on the levels in minor league baseball.

The levels do mean something. There various A level is for player development and to work on certain deficiencys. AA is for the top team prospects. AAA is for the most part a holding tank for MLB (holds the other 15 players from the 40 man roster). I used for recovering veteran to get some reps before going back to MLB or to hold those players who are to good enough to play MLB, but not good enough to stay there but are needed for depth.

They really don't mean that much to most teams. The reason he is considered higher than some of the Nats other prospects because, more than likely, his ceiling is considered higher.

I was just noting the inconsistency between BA own assessments. Also I would disagree with your assessment that he's got some higher ceiling than any other prospect - reading up on Washington National prospects - Norris is looked more on as a "sleeper".

Michael Burgess is considered their premier power prospect (1st rounder). He has already moved from Rookie-A (11 HR in 55 games) to A (24 HR in 131 games) to Adv-A (13 HR in 79 games so far).

Chris Marrero (another 1st rounder) is considered their best position prospect and best hitter with pure power. He's been set back by injuries but seems to be back on track.

Then there is Justin Maxwell who is now bouncing between AAA and MLB now. His progression was low-A, A/Adv-A, AA and now AAA.

Don't look at everything in one little box.

Actually I based my assessment on multiple sources who actually assess various minor league players.

Quite honestly, it sounds like you are bitter about him not coming to WSU.

Nah. Doesn't matter to me. I would rather have a bunch of kids playing for WSU who love the game and less concerned about where they are going to be drafted and more concerned about their "team". When that happens things seem to work out alright.

Fair enough. We agree to disagree my friend... 8)

And that is what this board is for - if we all agreed then there would not be much to discuss.

I'm hoping that Norris does a Ryan Howard. Howard underachieved (relative to his perceived talent level) for the most part at SWMO and only went 5th round. In the A ball he went 6 HR, 19 HR and 23 HR. Moved up to AA and exploded for 37 HR (46 total that year) and his career was off. I need to find the next "Ryan Howard" before he get to the major league.

[WSU4Life]

I think Norris obviously made the right choice in going pro after high school. While this is his 3rd year in professional baseball, you have to remember that both his first and second years were in short season ball. If Norris(a 2007 high school graduate) were to have come to WSU, he wouldn't be draft eligible until after next season. And I think its pretty safe to say that he will definitely be spending all of next season at the AA level, and he might even make it to AA before this season is over.

While I agree with SB Shock that AA is where the best prospects reside, most players take a couple of years to get to AA. The fact that Norris will have an entire year of AA experience under his belt before he would have been draft eligible if he came to WSU confirms that he made the correct choice.

For more proof that there are plenty of prospects in A ball, look at the rosters for the upcoming futures game. There are 18 players between both teams that are playing A or A+ ball right now.

Obviously as a WSU fan, I wish Norris would be a shocker right now and I think every high school player should come to college. But, based on his success in the minors to this point, its pretty obvious that Norris is a hot prospect and made the right choice in turning pro.

[lawmaker]

Wow please read the part about WSU--I did not know this---Is this true?


Saturday, July 11, 2009; 1:53 AM

HOUSTON, July 10 -- Almost everything about Derek Norris's upbringing geared the catcher to crush baseballs. A shed on his parents' property in Goddard, Kan., was fashioned into a batting cage with two pitchers' mounds. Norris always played with kids two years older than him, just to keep pace with his brother. Norris loved catching, but once he got to high school, his team happened to have two future Division I catchers. So Norris played third, and just kept hitting.

"Everything was about hitting," Norris recalled on Friday.

When the Washington Nationals drafted Norris straight out of high school in the fourth round of the 2007 draft, they considered him an unvarnished prospect. "He wasn't a high-profile kid," acting general manager Mike Rizzo said. "He'd just started catching that summer."

But ever since -- especially with a stunning stretch of production this month -- Norris has developed into Washington's top minor league prospect, in large part because he's hitting better than ever and hustling to catch up on his defense. Now a 20-year-old with Class A Hagerstown, Norris, through 81 games, has a .317 average (287 at-bats), 20 home runs, 64 RBI and a 1.013 OPS. Almost every one of his offensive statistics leads the South Atlantic League. During a four-game stretch this week (July 4-7), he hit six homers and knocked in 11 runs.

"It was really something different," Norris said of that zone. "It wasn't really so much that the pitches looked like beach balls or anything. It was just everything throughout my body just felt smooth. When I stepped into the box, my hands, everything felt in sequence."

For the moment, though, Norris is far more concerned about his defense than his bat. After the 2007 draft, Norris picked pro ball over a scholarship to Wichita State only when he learned the Shockers didn't do much one-on-one instruction with their catchers. This offseason, he hired a personal strength coach to work on his lower body strength, all to endure the grind of catching. Norris now keeps a mental checklist of catching to-dos: Keep the chest square; don't fall forward when blocking balls. Asked about his goals for this season, Norris said he wants to see an improvement in the Hagerstown staff ERA.


"I know I can hit, but I want to play defense," said Norris, the only Nationals' minor leaguer listed among Baseball America's latest ranking of the top 50 prospects. "That's really my key goal. That's really what is gonna move you up. Every team needs a good catcher, and if you don't have a good catcher your team is screwed."

[lawmaker]

Additionaly--Whoever said he signed for 190k is absolutely wrong--he signed for 650k

[WuDrWu]

Interesting. Sounds like Derek is about as sharp as you?

Nice try, troll.

Wake me when he's been in as many MLB games as Doug Mirabelli, Rick Wrona, Charlie O'Brien, Koyie Hill or Eric Wedge (and yes I know Koyie played 3rd at WSU and Wedgie is a manager).

I think our staff knows just a little about developing a catcher. Probably a lot more than you and Mr. Norris combined.

That being said, I believe the young man made the right decision. I just hope he is capable of making it stick. Time will tell. He's money ahead now. He'd be "man" ahead if he'd gone to college. I wish him the very best.